Summer training question

[livefortrack]

I am now a junior in high school and I am looking for a good cross country season. But with running mileage how many day should involve some type of speed like tempos. I know the saying is it doesn't matter how much mileage you do but the quality of the mileage.

[HappyJack]

I am now a junior in high school and I am looking for a good cross country season. But with running mileage how many day should involve some type of speed like tempos. I know the saying is it doesn't matter how much mileage you do but the quality of the mileage.

Go to www.scienceofrunning.com you may find it helpfull.

[Tinmanrunner]

i would say start with a few weeks of straight mileage and striders/hill strides. Then after 2-4 weeks add in a tempo for the first week, make it short and light though. If in season you do 30:00 then start with 2 x 10:00 with 2:00 rest. Start with doing stuff by feel rather than time so you don't run too hard. its still base. You can then build up to 2-3 a week and tack on striders. Also, you can mix things up and use aerobic fartleks such as 5 x 5:00 / 1:00 with the 5's at 12k pace. I recommend nothing faster than 8k pace until you start to transition into season training.

[RunAlexRun]

i would say start with a few weeks of straight mileage and striders/hill strides. Then after 2-4 weeks add in a tempo for the first week, make it short and light though. If in season you do 30:00 then start with 2 x 10:00 with 2:00 rest. Start with doing stuff by feel rather than time so you don't run too hard. its still base. You can then build up to 2-3 a week and tack on striders. Also, you can mix things up and use aerobic fartleks such as 5 x 5:00 / 1:00 with the 5's at 12k pace. I recommend nothing faster than 8k pace until you start to transition into season training.

Another option is after a month of straight mileage like Tinman says, you incorporate progressive runs about twice a week until you feel comfortable then you can replace those with fartleks and tempos.

[livefortrack]

Thanks guys. This is my third week in training so I will probably do my first tempo in about two weeks.

[lasseviren]

I am now a junior in high school and I am looking for a good cross country season. But with running mileage how many day should involve some type of speed like tempos. I know the saying is it doesn't matter how much mileage you do but the quality of the mileage.

it's summertime - don't structure it. just effin' run. if you feel good run a little harder, if you feel bad run a little easier.

keep in mind, after all this summer training you'll still have a cross country season to make it through. so make sure to monitor yourself pretty well.

good luck this fall. there's another saying: "summer miles bring fall smiles."

[glacier freeze]

it's summertime - don't structure it. just effin' run. if you feel good run a little harder, if you feel bad run a little easier.

keep in mind, after all this summer training you'll still have a cross country season to make it through. so make sure to monitor yourself pretty well.

good luck this fall. there's another saying: "summer miles bring fall smiles."

put in the monotonous aerobic work. lay down the foundation. take it easy and be mindful. being mindful also means that bc the work load is relatively comfortable, you should start to integrate core, drills, hills, strength exercises, as well as striders into your routine. start slow and build up, similar to your running. 2-3 times a week. in my opinion, once you settle into a good long run time/distance, just keep the training going, but you might want to start adding tempos and such, but build up again.

[lasseviren]

just thought i'd add that i find the long run to be useless during the summer. focus more on consistency in mileage. of course, running long also helps you mentally, so if you like it, then by all means keep it. but don't feel like just because it's sunday you have to run 15 miles.

[campoxc]

it's summertime - don't structure it. just effin' run. if you feel good run a little harder, if you feel bad run a little easier.

keep in mind, after all this summer training you'll still have a cross country season to make it through. so make sure to monitor yourself pretty well.

good luck this fall. there's another saying: "summer miles bring fall smiles."

good quote but be careful. i got a bit excited with my summer mileage last year and had a very banged up season.

[caxc10]

Ist here a general rule for percentage to cut back on during cut back weeks? MY last 3 weeks were 60 66 71. I was thinking maybe 50-55 ?

[RMshuXC]

Ist here a general rule for percentage to cut back on during cut back weeks? MY last 3 weeks were 60 66 71. I was thinking maybe 50-55 ?

No there's no set rule. I've heard people go 5-10 miles less and I've heard guys like Cabral run 90-100, 90-100, 90-100, 90-100, 40, 80-90, 90-100...
So to each his own I guess.

[rcs1113]

What do 400/800 guys typically do in the summer? Probably more focus on the 800. I'm Not running xc this fall.

[Matt Sutcliffe]

Is there any particular reason why high mileage seems to work for some people but not others? because last xc season my best race was at injury fund (the first race of the year) and i ran 17:06. This was just as school was starting when I was still above 50 miles a week (this is considered "high" for me, I topped out at 60 miles that summer). But then my coach had me dropping my miles a lot because he keeps saying that "he's had guys go to nationals on 30 miles a week". My times just got worse from there, until at states I ended up running an 18:49, a significantly worse time. I'm not sure if this is all in my head, or if there is some reasoning behind it. It almost seems like when I'm running 50-60 miles a week, I'm sort of "uncomfortable" because I'm tired a lot. However, because of this, it seems like I'm able to run my best times because I'm willing to push myself even further than I normally would. Any thoughts?

Edit: That was going into my sophomore year. Now I'm going to be a junior (in high school). Just thought I'd throw that out there

[HappyJack]

Some runners have more natural ability than others and can excel on low mileage while others need a ton of miles to have a successful season. Looking at your times I'd say 30 miles a week isn't even enough for w/u, c/d and recovery days. Post some of your quality workouts from last year. It would be interesting to see how and why you went backwards.

[Matt Sutcliffe]

I can't seem to remember many of them, but I do recall that he had us do like 10-15 200's several different times (I've always felt that any workout that involves intervals less than 400's do nothing to help me as a distance runner). other times it would be something like an 800/400/800 and sometimes 800/600/400

Edit: Also, my coach has never had us do long runs, tempo runs, progressive runs, etc.

[HappyJack]

I can't seem to remember many of them, but I do recall that he had us do like 10-15 200's several different times (I've always felt that any workout that involves intervals less than 400's do nothing to help me as a distance runner). other times it would be something like an 800/400/800 and sometimes 800/600/400

Edit: Also, my coach has never had us do long runs, tempo runs, progressive runs, etc.

Every coach has his/her own ways of doing things and usually arrive with similar results. But overlooking T-runs and more realistic distances for race pace intervals (1200-1600m) doesn't say much for his training methodology. Every once in a while I see posts similar to yours questioning a coaches competence. The best idea for you is to develop your own program, then talk with your coach (explaining your concerns) about incorporating it into his schedule. I've seen coaches who don't have a clue, that have gotten lucky because the athlete/s had so much natural talent that even a caveman would be successful coaching them. The big mistake they then make is thinking whatever it was they did will work for everyone. Unfortunately for you that approach doesn't work. Good Luck, H.J.

[Matt Sutcliffe]

Every coach has his/her own ways of doing things and usually arrive with similar results. But overlooking T-runs and more realistic distances for race pace intervals (1200-1600m) doesn't say much for his training methodology. Every once in a while I see posts similar to yours questioning a coaches competence. The best idea for you is to develop your own program, then talk with your coach (explaining your concerns) about incorporating it into his schedule. I've seen coaches who don't have a clue, that have gotten lucky because the athlete/s had so much natural talent that even a caveman would be successful coaching them. The big mistake they then make is thinking whatever it was they did will work for everyone. Unfortunately for you that approach doesn't work. Good Luck, H.J.

Thanks a lot. I think it's difficult to talk to him about it is because he's such a respected member of my community and he's been coaching for over 35 years. I'll try talking to him. Once again, thanks.

[CraigMac4h]

I can't seem to remember many of them, but I do recall that he had us do like 10-15 200's several different times (I've always felt that any workout that involves intervals less than 400's do nothing to help me as a distance runner).

Bob Schul is giggling uncontrollably right now.

[Quenton_Cassidy]

Thanks a lot. I think it's difficult to talk to him about it is because he's such a respected member of my community and he's been coaching for over 35 years. I'll try talking to him. Once again, thanks.

My coach is somewhat similar to this. He doesn't really believe in HIGH mileage during the season, but when I talked to him about it he wasn't totally against certain individuals doing it. Our team is pretty small, and I think he feels that if he had us doing long mileage runs that people would slack off or walk on them. Same with Tempos. Our longest runs during the season get up to maybe 6-7 miles, we do quite a few 800s, sometimes k's, sometimes mile repeats. He has had success with the way he trains his athletes though. I would say just try to talk to him about it, and if nothing else you could do the practice and go run on your own later if you don't feel it would hurt you too much.

[caxc10]

A couple of weeks ago i did a 6x1600 threshold workout on the track. Gave myself a minute of jogging recovery in between reps and averaged 5:38. I felt pretty good on all the reps. Pretty relaxed but worked pretty hard on the last one. I was very consistent, all reps were between 5:35 and 5:41. I don't have access to a track but I have a nice 2k loop on the grass with one slight but fairly long uphill and similar downhill . What kind of pace should I look for? I would like two do 6 reps. The previous workout was in flats and I plan to do this one in flats also. Thanks for the help.

[HappyJack]

A couple of weeks ago i did a 6x1600 threshold workout on the track. Gave myself a minute of jogging recovery in between reps and averaged 5:38. I felt pretty good on all the reps. Pretty relaxed but worked pretty hard on the last one. I was very consistent, all reps were between 5:35 and 5:41. I don't have access to a track but I have a nice 2k loop on the grass with one slight but fairly long uphill and similar downhill . What kind of pace should I look for? I would like two do 6 reps. The previous workout was in flats and I plan to do this one in flats also. Thanks for the help.

7:02 2k is the same pace as 5:38 avg. 1600m. With hills and turf you could expect to run 5-10 sec. per 400m slower at the same heart rate or effort level. You cannot make up all the time you slowed down running up hill going down. Hope this helps.

[Penguin]

Does anyone do hill workouts during the same or just runs that include hills?

I ask because all of my training has been flat this summer. Unfortunately I don't have any rolling hills close to me.

But I have two big hills at parks that I would be willing to drive to just to do workouts if that's beneficial...

I've already missed out a lot of weeks of possible hill running, but I have 5 weeks until my season starts.

So are high schoolers doing hill workouts during the summer or just runs that include hills? If workouts, then what are they? The hill I have access to is just one big one so should I just plan a run around it that goes up it several times, or is there a structured hill workout with rest that I should do?

[HappyJack]

Once a week I like to run fast 1/4 mile hill repeats. 30 sec. recovery at the top 2 min. jog down & 1 1/2 min. recov. at the bottom. Great strength building w/o.
For speed w/o 8-10 sec. sprints with full recov.

[Penguin]

I want to do a strength workout I guess but I don't get yours. You run hard up the hill which is 1/4 mile right? What is the 30 seconds? That is recovery at the top? And then what's the two minutes and 1.5 minutes. I'm confused what you actually do I think I'm confused with your periods for punctuation and abbreviations. And how many would you do for a strength workout. I don't need speed yet. I have about 5 weeks of summer left, should I do a hill workout once a week?

[lasseviren]

Once a week I like to run fast 1/4 mile hill repeats. 30 sec. recovery at the top 2 min. jog down & 1 1/2 min. recov. at the bottom. Great strength building w/o.
For speed w/o 8-10 sec. sprints with full recov.

translation:

quarter mile hard up the hill. thirty seconds standing recovery at the top. two minutes jogging back down. one minute, thirty seconds recover at the bottom. then run back up.

too much recovery to be "great strength building", IMO. i would just jog back down for recovery.

[HappyJack]

translation:

quarter mile hard up the hill. thirty seconds standing recovery at the top. two minutes jogging back down. one minute, thirty seconds recover at the bottom. then run back up.

too much recovery to be "great strength building", IMO. i would just jog back down for recovery.

Thanks for the translation!

If I want to run 10-12 of these I need the extra time at the bottom. It's a steep hill and I like to go fast.

[HappyJack]

I want to do a strength workout I guess but I don't get yours. You run hard up the hill which is 1/4 mile right? What is the 30 seconds? That is recovery at the top? And then what's the two minutes and 1.5 minutes. I'm confused what you actually do I think I'm confused with your periods for punctuation and abbreviations. And how many would you do for a strength workout. I don't need speed yet. I have about 5 weeks of summer left, should I do a hill workout once a week?

Once a week, depending on how long and steep it is maybe every 4-5 days.

[Penguin]

Thanks. I think my hill is probably only 200m or so and I'm sure yours is steeper so should I do more sets or what can I do? I'll probably just jog down for recovery. Also, how hard do you run each time up? Is it an all out effort?

[HappyJack]

Thanks. I think my hill is probably only 200m or so and I'm sure yours is steeper so should I do more sets or what can I do? I'll probably just jog down for recovery. Also, how hard do you run each time up? Is it an all out effort?
You might want to start off with 10 the first time and see how you feel the next day. If you are not too sore then run more the next time. I run each one as hard as I can bearing in mind that I wish to complete 8-10 of them. So not an all out effort but in the neighborhood of 90-95%. You should be suck'n wind at the top but not so much where you need to double over with your hands on your knees. On a different day you could run down hill sprints to work on stride frequency and stride length. Just be careful not to lock or hyper-extend your knees. I did that once, ouch did that ever hurt!
Here's a work out I like to run twice during season (spaced apart 3-4 weeks) for stride frequency and length. Day 1: 12x200m up hill fast. Day 2: 12x200m down hill fast. Day 3: 12x200m on the track fast/all out.

[Niden]

I ran a morning run today with an old friend, and had a question. Im a guy whos easy days range from 6:30-7:00, and morning runs around 6:50-7:10 pace. I run 90 a week now with 4 doubles a week. I ran my run today knowing it would be slower than usual, but we finished and ended up running 4.45 miles at 9:06 pace :o I've never gone so slow in my life, was that just a waste of a run? or did I at least gain something from such a slow pace? Idk whether to count it towards my mileage for the week or not

[HappyJack]

I ran a morning run today with an old friend, and had a question. Im a guy whos easy days range from 6:30-7:00, and morning runs around 6:50-7:10 pace. I run 90 a week now with 4 doubles a week. I ran my run today knowing it would be slower than usual, but we finished and ended up running 4.45 miles at 9:06 pace :o I've never gone so slow in my life, was that just a waste of a run? or did I at least gain something from such a slow pace? Idk whether to count it towards my mileage for the week or not

Since you've logged 26 miles in the last 2 days you shouldn't be surprised by todays pace. Your body needs rest after those miles and under those conditions. Consider it a shake out run and log it as such.

[CraigMac4h]

If you're cracking 7 on morning runs, you're probably doing them wrong anyway. Just concentrate on getting in the time on your feet at the correct effort, don't sweat pace or exact distance.

[kang6789]

Yeah but Daniels says that 72.7754% of his Aerobic I-Pace Lactate Threshold is 6:27.4 pace! How can he benefit from a run if he his running so far from his ideal pace?

[xcrnr05]

Yeah but Daniels says that 72.7754% of his Aerobic I-Pace Lactate Threshold is 6:27.4 pace! How can he benefit from a run if he his running so far from his ideal pace?

LOL SCIENCE

Summer = relaxed running. That's how I look at it anyway. Get rid of the GPS watch and perfectly mapped routes, mostly run on the easier side, push it (comfortably) some days, get ready for the quality workouts during the season.

[lasseviren]

If you're cracking 7 on morning runs, you're probably doing them wrong anyway. Just concentrate on getting in the time on your feet at the correct effort, don't sweat pace or exact distance.

not if you're just out running. i know i'm in shape when my recovery days are around 6:30-6:40 and i doubt many people would say "i'm doing it wrong".

[Tinmanrunner]

yeahhh i agree with everyone who says summer is about being careless about your training! run random routes! don't care about the distance! 2 minutes or 2 days! as long as your running your going to have a great xc season! no workouts, no need! if you feel like running hard do it! i personally feel like doing mile races on the track at least twice a week! sometimes i practice using the blocks! it's all about that i'm logging the miles! sometimes i run at 4:00/mile pace for as long as i can! othertimes, i do all out hill reps because i know it will make me tons faster!

yayyy for summer training of nonsense!

[fasterrunner12]

yeahhh i agree with everyone who says summer is about being careless about your training! run random routes! don't care about the distance! 2 minutes or 2 days! as long as your running your going to have a great xc season! no workouts, no need! if you feel like running hard do it! i personally feel like doing mile races on the track at least twice a week! sometimes i practice using the blocks! it's all about that i'm logging the miles! sometimes i run at 4:00/mile pace for as long as i can! othertimes, i do all out hill reps because i know it will make me tons faster!

yayyy for summer training of nonsense!

You need to change your avatar, it makes me want to kick you in the head.

[CraigMac4h]

not if you're just out running. i know i'm in shape when my recovery days are around 6:30-6:40 and i doubt many people would say "i'm doing it wrong".

You're also probably a lot faster and more experienced than the OP, for what it's worth. Also, on a personal note, I have no idea how you (and other people) roll out of bed and hit 6:30 pace. Even in my peak shape, my first half mile of any morning run is UGLY.

[Quenton_Cassidy]

yeahhh i agree with everyone who says summer is about being careless about your training! run random routes! don't care about the distance! 2 minutes or 2 days! as long as your running your going to have a great xc season! no workouts, no need! if you feel like running hard do it! i personally feel like doing mile races on the track at least twice a week! sometimes i practice using the blocks! it's all about that i'm logging the miles! sometimes i run at 4:00/mile pace for as long as i can! othertimes, i do all out hill reps because i know it will make me tons faster!

yayyy for summer training of nonsense!

So what is that, about 350 meters? Seeing as how your 400 PR is 4:12/mile pace I think? :p haha.

Also to the above poster who talked about running at 9:00/mile pace. Remember that some intense African runners start runs at close to 10:00/mile pace :P
If you wanna go hard on your hard days, you need to be sure to go easy on your easy days. Over the summer if you do workouts they shouldn't be as hard and taxing as in-season workouts, so you can run your easy and recovery days faster probably, because the workouts aren't as hard. But during the season when you get into very taxing workouts, your easy/recovery days will often become slower. Don't let that bother you though, as long as you are still seeing improvements in your workouts and times.

[RunAlexRun]

You're also probably a lot faster and more experienced than the OP, for what it's worth. Also, on a personal note, I have no idea how you (and other people) roll out of bed and hit 6:30 pace. Even in my peak shape, my first half mile of any morning run is UGLY.

I always wonder the same exact thing. I figure they're either lieing or in very good shape.

[lasseviren]

You're also probably a lot faster and more experienced than the OP, for what it's worth. Also, on a personal note, I have no idea how you (and other people) roll out of bed and hit 6:30 pace. Even in my peak shape, my first half mile of any morning run is UGLY.

generally my first half is around 7-7:15 pace. there's a nice half mile stretch from my house to the first turn, so on the way home i really drop pace to close to 6 min, so i make up some time there. trying to cross a couple busy streets also helps get the blood flowing.

[amw2829]

You're also probably a lot faster and more experienced than the OP, for what it's worth. Also, on a personal note, I have no idea how you (and other people) roll out of bed and hit 6:30 pace. Even in my peak shape, my first half mile of any morning run is UGLY.

If your used to getting up early, and running long its not so bad. I'm no superstar, and I can usually get up and start around 6:50 pace if I'm feeling alright.

[THE BIG GUY]

i have been running on/off for the past 2 weeks after a good start to the summer(60 a week). what should i do in order to maintain fitness and be ready the time the HS season starts.

I dont really know what is wrong with me and i'm not sure if i can x-train or not

[xcrnr05]

yeahhh i agree with everyone who says summer is about being careless about your training! run random routes! don't care about the distance! 2 minutes or 2 days! as long as your running your going to have a great xc season! no workouts, no need! if you feel like running hard do it! i personally feel like doing mile races on the track at least twice a week! sometimes i practice using the blocks! it's all about that i'm logging the miles! sometimes i run at 4:00/mile pace for as long as i can! othertimes, i do all out hill reps because i know it will make me tons faster!

yayyy for summer training of nonsense!

Not sure what you're getting at here. First you sarcastically criticize the more laid-back approach, then you move to the other extreme. Are you saying you're somewhere in the middle?

Regardless, I'll bite. Running "random routes" and "not caring about the distance" can be a good thing. I see so many people checking their GPS watches arguing over whether they are currently running 6:42 or 6:45 pace. It's just ridiculous. I'm saying all of this as a non-malmo guy. I certainly think there should be some structure to summer training. But honestly, trying to figure out the exact pace you are running and the exact distance to the hundredth decimal place is just absurd. For your long run, go run 90 minutes. Or if you know a roughly 13 mile route, go run it. If you have a tempo, go harder. I hate how I used to see my tempo pace over the summer, I'd always think I was going too slow and pick it up and end up killing myself. Your summer tempos are very unlikely to be 5 minute pace. For most on here, they're very unlikely to be far under 6, if under 6 at all. Controlled, harder running. Gets your heart rate and breathing up without beating up your legs.

Quick note: I'm using the word "tempo" very loosely. I'm not referring to any strict definition. Rather, just a general term for more moderate paced, slightly harder effort running.

Many on here seem to advocate workouts over the summer, i.e. intervals such as mile repeats. That's fine, but just know it is very possible to overdo it in the summer. Get to September as fit as possible while also having fresh enough legs to tackle harder workouts. I feel, for me, that lots of running with some of it at that controlled, harder effort gets me to a solid level of fitness, but that's just me. Maybe others need workouts. Just do yourself a favor and keep your ego in check on those. No "well Jack Daniels' VDOT says I should be running these mile repeats at approximately 5:11.6 per mile, therefore I have to hit exactly that." That's just dumb. Again, maybe I'm wrong. But when you go out there and try to hit those times, you'll likely overdo it.

This ended up being longer than I thought. I'm no training master whatsoever. Everyone has their opinion. Take everything you read with a grain of salt.

On a final note, I agree with CraigMac (as I generally do), how can you roll right out of bed and honestly say you can comfortably run 6:30 pace? There's just no way. Maybe some people's muscles just wake up really fast, who knows.

[lasseviren]

generally my first half is around 7-7:15 pace. there's a nice half mile stretch from my house to the first turn, so on the way home i really drop pace to close to 6 min, so i make up some time there. trying to cross a couple busy streets also helps get the blood flowing.

On a final note, I agree with CraigMac (as I generally do), how can you roll right out of bed and honestly say you can comfortably run 6:30 pace? There's just no way. Maybe some people's muscles just wake up really fast, who knows.

try to cross some busy roads during morning rush hour and see how quick you move when there's a car bearing down on you. fortunately the two i cross are only two lanes wide. i have an unhealthy, but controlled fear of crossing streets on foot.

[Penguin]

If I'm doubling about 3-5 times a week with just 3-5 mile shakeouts, but cut all doubles when school starts, will this negatively affect me? I won't have time to double when school starts up so when should I stop doubling if so and what should I do. My mileage would only drop a little since the single runs would probably still even out if I count the warmups and cooldowns for team runs.

[itizi]

If I'm doubling about 3-5 times a week with just 3-5 mile shakeouts, but cut all doubles when school starts, will this negatively affect me? I won't have time to double when school starts up so when should I stop doubling if so and what should I do. My mileage would only drop a little since the single runs would probably still even out if I count the warmups and cooldowns for team runs.

you should find a way to keep doubling. it's worth the time and effort. stopping your doubling probably won't hurt you, but it almost certainly won't help you in the long term (with peaking at the right time and such). if you stop now it may lead to you peaking earlier in the season than you want.

also, why wouldn't you count your warmups and cooldowns? a mile is a mile is a mile.

[Penguin]

I do count warmup and cooldown, I was just saying I would have to for the mileage to even out if I stop doubles since I am still in base right now and not doing warmups/cooldowns but in season I will be with the team.

Is the only downside that I may peak early? I know that's a big deal but could anything else negative happen? I really doubt I'll be able to double, I would if I could. Just wanted to make sure what would happen though, thanks for your input. Anyway to prevent the early peaking if I stop the doubling, or is it just possible I may peak early and not for sure?

[okko]

I do count warmup and cooldown, I was just saying I would have to for the mileage to even out if I stop doubles since I am still in base right now and not doing warmups/cooldowns but in season I will be with the team.

Is the only downside that I may peak early? I know that's a big deal but could anything else negative happen? I really doubt I'll be able to double, I would if I could. Just wanted to make sure what would happen though, thanks for your input. Anyway to prevent the early peaking if I stop the doubling, or is it just possible I may peak early and not for sure?

silly penguin! it's winter in Antarctica right now!

[Penguin]

silly penguin! it's winter in Antarctica right now!

hehe...

[max219]

I have a question. If all summer I am doing singles, starting around 45mpw and ending around 70mpw by the first week in september, would it be a good idea to start doubling in september. My school starts then and I would like to add a morning shake out runs a few times a week, and average around 80 mpw until I taper off. Is this a bad idea?

[CraigMac4h]

Of course not. Just make sure you're getting enough sleep between school and doubling. Homework done early then straight to bed, mister!

[Rob A]

I ran a morning run today with an old friend, and had a question. Im a guy whos easy days range from 6:30-7:00, and morning runs around 6:50-7:10 pace. I run 90 a week now with 4 doubles a week. I ran my run today knowing it would be slower than usual, but we finished and ended up running 4.45 miles at 9:06 pace :o I've never gone so slow in my life, was that just a waste of a run? or did I at least gain something from such a slow pace? Idk whether to count it towards my mileage for the week or not

I lol'd at this.

Almost all my morning runs, all summer long, were 4 mile runs at 9-10 min pace. Yes you still benefit from them. Too many people are afraid of running slow.

[Penguin]

So summer is wrapping up but not quite finished, I just realized I haven't done any repeats/intervals yet. My training since early June has been basically a weekly tempo, long run, and everything else just solid distance runs or shakeouts on double days.

Question: Is this bad? My first meet is September 6th and it's not a big deal but then obviously the season is starting up in 3 weeks. Should I be doing some type of repeats right now? (My team practice doesn't start until September 1st, it's stupid so I'm still on my own). If so, what should I do? If not how long should I wait until to start? Obviously my goal race is states in early November but of course I want to do well in October races too (big invitational, conference, districts etc)

[fasterrunner12]

So summer is wrapping up but not quite finished, I just realized I haven't done any repeats/intervals yet. My training since early June has been basically a weekly tempo, long run, and everything else just solid distance runs or shakeouts on double days.

Question: Is this bad? My first meet is September 6th and it's not a big deal but then obviously the season is starting up in 3 weeks. Should I be doing some type of repeats right now? (My team practice doesn't start until September 1st, it's stupid so I'm still on my own). If so, what should I do? If not how long should I wait until to start? Obviously my goal race is states in early November but of course I want to do well in October races too (big invitational, conference, districts etc)

No, that's actually pretty much exactly what a summer should be. The summer is about getting in miles with some high-end aerobic work, which you get from tempo runs, long runs and pushing some easy runs - all which you've done. Looks like you're good to go.

EDIT: I would start doing pace intervals 6-7 weeks out from your last race. Your body only responds to up to usually 6 anaerobic interval sessions in a season, so I would start 6-7 weeks out and do one each week up to the race (don't do one the week of the race). I'm assuming you're training for a 5k? If so, make your intervals a progression: start with 12x400 @ 5k pace, then 6x800, then 5x1000, then 4x1200, then start back down with 5x1000 and 6x800. Equal time recovery on all intervals.

For fast reps (200's and 400's), that can wait until about 2-3 weeks from your last race. Keep doing a tempo 1x a week until you start doing reps, and then start doing combo workouts - do part of a tempo workout, and part of a rep workout after. That way you're maintaining your high-end aerobic fitness and working on speed. An example would be, if a normal tempo run for you is 20 minutes, do 15 minutes tempo, or 2x8 minutes tempo w/ 1 min rest, and then 2 sets of 200-200-400 at mile pace with equal jog recovery.

[The Albatross]

I ran a morning run today with an old friend, and had a question. Im a guy whos easy days range from 6:30-7:00, and morning runs around 6:50-7:10 pace. I run 90 a week now with 4 doubles a week. I ran my run today knowing it would be slower than usual, but we finished and ended up running 4.45 miles at 9:06 pace :o I've never gone so slow in my life, was that just a waste of a run? or did I at least gain something from such a slow pace? Idk whether to count it towards my mileage for the week or not


I consider a run at that pace something like physical therapy. Jogging (a relative term) has been used by all the greats since people started to understand you could get benefits from running slow. Many of Lydiard's boys (including the gold medalists!) would go run slowly in the morning, probably not muchf faster than 9:00 or 8:30. It's standard for many of the top Kenyans to run some of their easy sessions at 8:00/mi, (REALLY REALLY slow for a -4:00 miler)


The point: I'd count it, and just note that it was slow. You still get fitness benefits from that pace, just less and of a slightly different sort than running fast.