Wisconsin Camp of Champions

[watch me run]

Is anyone going to it? I'm going there week 2.

[runninggartman]

Yup, I'll be at session 2. Did you go last year?

[TheLemon17]

i'm going to session one, first time going to Camp of Champs. Pretty pumped.

[MadwestCC]

Session 2. Should be great. I have one question, though. Is it going to be more like doing two-a-days or more like workout oriented?

[bert]

i went there the last two years but im not going this year. it was a lot of long runs, but a lot of runners tried to prove themselves to the leaders so they just pushed the pace the whole run. It's definitely a lot of fun though

[ItalianRunner6]

Session 2. Should be great. I have one question, though. Is it going to be more like doing two-a-days or more like workout oriented?

It was mostly two-a-days, but there was one day were everyone did a fartlek on their new XC course. But then depending on what group you are in I know some groups did last man standing.

It is a lot of fun and am looking forward to this year. I'm going to the first session.

[SCCXC11]

Session 2!

[timp21]

i went there the last two years but im not going this year. it was a lot of long runs, but a lot of runners tried to prove themselves to the leaders so they just pushed the pace the whole run. It's definitely a lot of fun though

that was super annoying. everyone would push the easy days so we were all trashed for the workouts. such a fun camp tho

[watch me run]

Yup, I'll be at session 2. Did you go last year?

Nope, I didn't go last year... this year is going to be my first year there. Can anyone tell me what kind of mileage you do in the week you are there?

[runninggartman]

Session 2!

Wait, i thought you were going session one SCCXC11?

and the milage can be whatever you want it to be but it really depends on your group. they break you into 18 groups based on your eval run. i ended up in group 2 and the group did like 75 miles that week, but every workout was optional and you could make them shorter too if you wanted, so it was pretty much make as many miles as you wanted

[watch me run]

Wait, i thought you were going session one SCCXC11?

and the milage can be whatever you want it to be but it really depends on your group. they break you into 18 groups based on your eval run. i ended up in group 2 and the group did like 75 miles that week, but every workout was optional and you could make them shorter too if you wanted, so it was pretty much make as many miles as you wanted

Okay that sounds good. What kind of workouts do you do? Also what do you do about rooming? Do you have to room with someone? Because if so, I do not have anyone to room with lol

[neenah1944]

Ill be at week 2! im jacked for it we gotta get a huge group together and chill some night

[Eastview10]

Won't be there this year, but I went the last 3 years and it was fantastic.

[SCCXC11]

Wait, i thought you were going session one SCCXC11?


July 26-30? That's the week I'm going to. I believe that's session 2.

[realtalk14]

This is actual real talk right here...I never went to this camp and I've heard how awesome it is etc etc. But one thing that needs to be noted is the last four years, every person that has run fast at this camp has not run well at the end of the year. Three years ago Stillin and Perkins tore the camp up, both struggled at state, last year Wardall was hot as hell during the camp, struggled at state. I remember someone writing on dyestat that Tanner Bebe ran really well at the camp last year, and where was he at state?? So as fun as the camp is and stuff, I really think the way they do it with all the hard runs and everyone pulling their dicks out on easy runs and comparing them, is bad if your really training for the end of the year.


Realtalk14, signing out

[SCCXC11]

Okay that sounds good. What kind of workouts do you do? Also what do you do about rooming? Do you have to room with someone? Because if so, I do not have anyone to room with lol


You can pick your own roommate on the sign up sheet. Otherwise they just assign one to you. I had a random kid last year. Now I'm going with a friend this year. It's a good way to meet new people though having a random roommate. As for workouts, it depends on your group. There were 18 groups in our session last year with 1 being the best. You do an evaluation run on the first night and that determines what group you are in. And realtalk14 is correct about people pushing it at this camp...I was in group 3 last year and believe it or not, Marcus Paulson was in my group. He was definitely not in "Marcus Paulson" shape. Obviously we all know what happened come October 31st. It is definitely fun to go fast...but just looking at what Marcus did reminded me and I'm sure a lot of other people about when the right time to run fast is.

[watch me run]

Ill be at week 2! im jacked for it we gotta get a huge group together and chill some night

For sure! We should definitly get a group together. That'd be pretty sick.



You can pick your own roommate on the sign up sheet. Otherwise they just assign one to you. I had a random kid last year. Now I'm going with a friend this year. It's a good way to meet new people though having a random roommate. As for workouts, it depends on your group. There were 18 groups in our session last year with 1 being the best. You do an evaluation run on the first night and that determines what group you are in. And realtalk14 is correct about people pushing it at this camp...I was in group 3 last year and believe it or not, Marcus Paulson was in my group. He was definitely not in "Marcus Paulson" shape. Obviously we all know what happened come October 31st. It is definitely fun to go fast...but just looking at what Marcus did reminded me and I'm sure a lot of other people about when the right time to run fast is.

Do people really push the runs that much? What pace do you think everyone goes for an easy day or a normal long run?

[cinnastix]

This is actual real talk right here...I never went to this camp and I've heard how awesome it is etc etc. But one thing that needs to be noted is the last four years, every person that has run fast at this camp has not run well at the end of the year. Three years ago Stillin and Perkins tore the camp up, both struggled at state, last year Wardall was hot as hell during the camp, struggled at state. I remember someone writing on dyestat that Tanner Bebe ran really well at the camp last year, and where was he at state?? So as fun as the camp is and stuff, I really think the way they do it with all the hard runs and everyone pulling their dicks out on easy runs and comparing them, is bad if your really training for the end of the year.


Realtalk14, signing out

all the scouts are at camp of champs tho dude

[SCCXC11]

Do people really push the runs that much? What pace do you think everyone goes for an easy day or a normal long run?


Like I said, depends on the group. I remember hearing last summer that Wardall's group ran their first 10k in a training run in 35 something. Personally, I'd rather be in a lower group that doesn't try and race their balls off on training runs at a camp in July and run the pace that I like to train at. But that's just my opinion.

[ItalianRunner6]

all the scouts are at camp of champs tho dude

Yeah, but a scout would rather see you win a State/National meet than a training run...

The best time to run hard during the week is the race on Saturday. The way I see it, if a scout is going to look for some prospects, that would be the first place to look. Second, it is the best way to see where you are at for the summer, compared to last track season. The course is 3350m just take your time and convert it to 3200m.

[cinnastix]

Yeah, but a scout would rather see you win a State/National meet than a training run...

The best time to run hard during the week is the race on Saturday. The way I see it, if a scout is going to look for some prospects, that would be the first place to look. Second, it is the best way to see where you are at for the summer, compared to last track season. The course is 3350m just take your time and convert it to 3200m.

u sure?

[zeeeblob]

Since Coach Byrnes became the new coach for the Badgers, has the camp changed at all? I would agree on the injuries after camp. Every one of my runners that has gone to the camp has been injured during the season at some point. I usually tell my runners to take it easier during the first time trial to make sure that they get into an easier group and then rip it the last test run. (This school of thought is for any CC Camp)
I doubt that the scouts are comparing the camp times. They look to the end of the season for results.

[ItalianRunner6]

u sure?

about what?

[SCCXC11]

about what?


He's just dicking with you man lol. There's no scouts that come and watch anything. UW-Platteville coach was there for like an hour last year to talk to the group as a whole but he never watched us run or anything.

[runninggartman]

The roomate thing isn't much of a big deal, i roomed with a cool guy from minnesota and i still talk to him and his friends. As far as the groups pushing it too much i think it really doesn't matter too much what group as how much you do in it. Pretty much everything as i said was optional so you can make it what you want regardless of where you end up. I would say it's definetely good to not up your training too much as some guys have said, better not to risk the injury, just save it for the season, but as long as you're sane about it it shouldn't hurt you for the season.

Gotta say tho ultimate is pretty fun, i'd say that got as competitive as the running.

And I totally agree we should all chill one night, it's gonna be a fun week.

[SCCXC11]

Haha ROBO FTW.

[neenah1944]

haha all i know is that my frisbee team is going to win it all! Defending Champs!

[kmatus]

Since Coach Byrnes became the new coach for the Badgers, has the camp changed at all? I would agree on the injuries after camp. Every one of my runners that has gone to the camp has been injured during the season at some point. I usually tell my runners to take it easier during the first time trial to make sure that they get into an easier group and then rip it the last test run. (This school of thought is for any CC Camp)
I doubt that the scouts are comparing the camp times. They look to the end of the season for results.

My son (from IL) went last year after his freshman year, and was in group 4 of week 1. He had a blast and did not want to come home. He had no injury issues during the season, and thought it set him up well for the early season.

He is going to week 2 this year.

[MadwestCC]

In which group do you think someone with my PRs would be in? Someone before told me group 2. But I don't know if I'm good enough for that.
4:31, 9:54, and 16:31 are my PRs.

[theskinnyrunner]

In which group do you think someone with my PRs would be in? Someone before told me group 2. But I don't know if I'm good enough for that.
4:31, 9:54, and 16:31 are my PRs.

I had similar PRs and was in group 2...but I also had a pretty good race. I'd expect between 2 and 4.

[hoegher]

Apparently, you guys/girls take up the entire path when you run as a pack. Try to be more courteous for the rest of the week and next week.

[cinnastix]

Apparently, you guys/girls take up the entire path when you run as a pack. Try to be more courteous for the rest of the week and next week.

Yea what the heck

[SCCXC11]

In which group do you think someone with my PRs would be in? Someone before told me group 2. But I don't know if I'm good enough for that.
4:31, 9:54, and 16:31 are my PRs.


Those were also around my PRs heading into my junior year and I was in group 3 last year. Depends on the week. Our week was stacked with guys from Illinois who tore the place up last year.

[runninggartman]

Those were pretty close to mine too. i was week 1 and i was in group 2.

[watch me run]

Well, camp is tomorrow! I'm pretty pumped. Oh and one question, does everyone tend to go all out on the evaluation run?

[kmatus]

Well, camp is tomorrow! I'm pretty pumped. Oh and one question, does everyone tend to go all out on the evaluation run?

Anyone have results from Saturday's race at C of C?

[ItalianRunner6]

Anyone have results from Saturday's race at C of C?

The winning time was 10:05, but they had to change the course a bit because of the rain, so times won't really be able to be compared. Adam Zutz was the winner, he will be a senior in minnesota.

But someone that is going to the second session should post all of the times of the wisconsin guys, pre-run and race. I'll see if I can find results for all of the wisconsin guys from session one, or just wait until they send out the packet with all of the schedules and times.

[runninggartman]

I'll see if i can keep track of how the wisconsin guys do for second session. The camp has so many out of staters it shouldn't be too hard.

[kmatus]

I'll see if i can keep track of how the wisconsin guys do for second session. The camp has so many out of staters it shouldn't be too hard.

Well the weather looks good for you guys this week. I am driving my son up tomorrow. He is one of those "out of staters".

[watch me run]

Well the weather looks good for you guys this week. I am driving my son up tomorrow. He is one of those "out of staters".

I am also one of those out of staters :cool:

[kmatus]

I am also one of those out of staters :cool:

IL?

[runninggartman]

Illinois people are everywhere at camp. There was like 3 times as many from there as from wisconsin.

[watch me run]

IL?

yup!

[TheLemon17]

Anyone have results from Saturday's race at C of C?

Paul Zemen from Belvedere North took a close 2nd, and Steven Dado of MN took 3rd. Top Wisco guy was 12th i heard, i didn't look at results too closely though. The course was absolutely soaked though cuz of the 2 storms that hit during the week.

[MadwestCC]

Paul Zemen from Belvedere North took a close 2nd, and Steven Dado of MN took 3rd. Top Wisco guy was 12th i heard, i didn't look at results too closely though. The course was absolutely soaked though cuz of the 2 storms that hit during the week.

Haha, Gerrit Bruni was the first Wisco guy I think. He'll be pretty good this upcoming CC season(He's a junior). He was injured all last year.

[kmatus]

I am also one of those out of staters :cool:

Nice job on Monday.

[CCman]

I'll see if i can keep track of how the wisconsin guys do for second session. The camp has so many out of staters it shouldn't be too hard.

I was talking with one of the Wisconsin runners last night who was in group 2. He also said that there werent a lot of Wisconsin runners present and that he didnt know many of them. There were no WI runners in group 1, only 1 in group 2, 2 in group 3, etc... Obviously many more out-of-staters, especially Illinois runners. Does anyone have any thoughts as to why the Wisconsin numbers are down at our own excellent camp? Too expensive? Not necessary for fall success? Possible injuries that can develop? Are we not as serious as Illinois and other states?

[bert]

I was talking with one of the Wisconsin runners last night who was in group 2. He also said that there werent a lot of Wisconsin runners present and that he didnt know many of them. There were no WI runners in group 1, only 1 in group 2, 2 in group 3, etc... Obviously many more out-of-staters, especially Illinois runners. Does anyone have any thoughts as to why the Wisconsin numbers are down at our own excellent camp? Too expensive? Not necessary for fall success? Possible injuries that can develop? Are we not as serious as Illinois and other states?

I think the numbers are down because of the bad things that have happened to the wisconsin runners who have been in good shape for the camp, but have faded down the stretch of the CC season (wardall, binzak etc.). I think because they work you very hard at camp (2 runs per day/ ultimate frisbee at night), that it can make you peak at the wrong time of the year unless you are very careful.

Also, it is sorta expensive just to be going to run. They do have sessions to go to and they are very interesting to go to, but they were almost the same from one year to the next.

[zeeeblob]

I think the numbers are down because of the bad things that have happened to the wisconsin runners who have been in good shape for the camp, but have faded down the stretch of the CC season (wardall, binzak etc.). I think because they work you very hard at camp (2 runs per day/ ultimate frisbee at night), that it can make you peak at the wrong time of the year unless you are very careful.

Also, it is sorta expensive just to be going to run. They do have sessions to go to and they are very interesting to go to, but they were almost the same from one year to the next.

I would agree! I have had many runners injured through this camp. That is why I was wondering if things may have changed since Coach Byrnes started? I usually recommend some of the smaller camps in our state. This year I had two runners go out of state for camps.

[kmatus]

You WI guys are actually pretty well represented at the Camp of Champions, at least in week #2.

In Monday's time trial....

WI had 20 of the top 40 finishers (and 5 of the top 10).

IL had 13 of the top 40 (and 4 of the top 10, but took places 1-2-3)

FL had 1 in the top 10

MN had 5 in the top 40, but none in the top 10

IA had 1 in the top 40 but none in the top 10.

[bert]

I would agree! I have had many runners injured through this camp. That is why I was wondering if things may have changed since Coach Byrnes started? I usually recommend some of the smaller camps in our state. This year I had two runners go out of state for camps.

I didn't notice anything significantly different. maybe the length of the training runs or the pace of them, but I can't say that for sure because my first year (schumacher) I was in group 3. last year (Mick) I was in group 2.

there may have been other differences, but they weren't very noticeable.

[CCFanToo]

I personally think ANY camp can be very good or very bad for a runner. A runner is not made or broken in one week of running. If he gets injured BEFORE the season, then I would obviously say there was too drastic of an increase in miles, and THAT injured the runner, not the camp. (I know the miles were run at the camp, but the runner made that choice)

Back in 1992 when I ran at the Stevens Point camp I logged 65 miles in 5 days.....4 of the 5 days I did 3 runs in a day and played volleyball...no ultimate frisbee yet. I didn't get injured, but definitely should have gotten injured. I had done solid miles before the camp, so I'm sure that helped. Went on to have a great senior year.

I just don't believe that one week of camp can hurt your chances at state some 3 months later. If a runner fades at state it can't be linked to just one camp experience. I strongly believe it can be linked to what the runner did over the WHOLE summer.

As a point of reference, I coached Joe Stilin back in 2007. Joe was, is, and always will be an amazingly determined individual. We tried, after discussion, to bump his mileage heading into cross country; slowly, with no more than a 10% increase every 2-3 weeks. Joe, however, hammered almost every run and still ranks among the top 10 times ever recorded at the COC. His 10-12 mile runs later in the summer were averaging 5:45-5:50. His body recovers SO fast, so we didn't think it was detrimental....but it probably was. Joe's base miles were probably being treated like interval miles by his body, so that when footlocker rolled around he was done. He finished 5th at State......with terrible sickness and fever; he may have gotten 2-3 hours of sleep at most the night before. Pretty amazing testament to his grit. He would agree, though, that less is probably more. He is still working on that balance now, at Princeton.

That being said, the King program has benefited ENORMOUSLY from the camp of champions. Since 2006 we have had at least 5 runners (mostly boys) attend the camp with over 10 this year. The runners and I have had discussions and I hope that they realize when to recover and when to push the envelope with some fantastic runners to break up their summer training. To run with some of the best collegians and high school runners for one week has done amazing things for their confidence and work ethic. The questions they bring back to foster dialogue, along with knowledge, has been instrumental in building up the King program.

I understand the pros and cons of the camp, but I believe the pros outnumber the cons. Sorry, had to drop by two cents.....

[kmatus]

I personally think ANY camp can be very good or very bad for a runner. A runner is not made or broken in one week of running. If he gets injured BEFORE the season, then I would obviously say there was too drastic of an increase in miles, and THAT injured the runner, not the camp. (I know the miles were run at the camp, but the runner made that choice)

Back in 1992 when I ran at the Stevens Point camp I logged 65 miles in 5 days.....4 of the 5 days I did 3 runs in a day and played volleyball...no ultimate frisbee yet. I didn't get injured, but definitely should have gotten injured. I had done solid miles before the camp, so I'm sure that helped. Went on to have a great senior year.

I just don't believe that one week of camp can hurt your chances at state some 3 months later. If a runner fades at state it can't be linked to just one camp experience. I strongly believe it can be linked to what the runner did over the WHOLE summer.

As a point of reference, I coached Joe Stilin back in 2007. Joe was, is, and always will be an amazingly determined individual. We tried, after discussion, to bump his mileage heading into cross country; slowly, with no more than a 10% increase every 2-3 weeks. Joe, however, hammered almost every run and still ranks among the top 10 times ever recorded at the COC. His 10-12 mile runs later in the summer were averaging 5:45-5:50. His body recovers SO fast, so we didn't think it was detrimental....but it probably was. Joe's base miles were probably being treated like interval miles by his body, so that when footlocker rolled around he was done. He finished 5th at State......with terrible sickness and fever; he may have gotten 2-3 hours of sleep at most the night before. Pretty amazing testament to his grit. He would agree, though, that less is probably more. He is still working on that balance now, at Princeton.

That being said, the King program has benefited ENORMOUSLY from the camp of champions. Since 2006 we have had at least 5 runners (mostly boys) attend the camp with over 10 this year. The runners and I have had discussions and I hope that they realize when to recover and when to push the envelope with some fantastic runners to break up their summer training. To run with some of the best collegians and high school runners for one week has done amazing things for their confidence and work ethic. The questions they bring back to foster dialogue, along with knowledge, has been instrumental in building up the King program.

I understand the pros and cons of the camp, but I believe the pros outnumber the cons. Sorry, had to drop by two cents.....

Agreed.

I am not a coach, just a dad of a runner and a former runner myself. I think if you come unprepared to camp, or unprepared to a week worth of equivalent workouts, of course it can burn you out - but unless you get injured, I do not see how it affects you 2-3 months later.

[marathonman]

I understand the pros and cons of the camp, but I believe the pros outnumber the cons. Sorry, had to drop by two cents.....

Totally agree with your thoughtful comments. It puts the C of C, and any weeklong XC camp, in perspective. And I'd say you dropped at least a dollar in your email! :D

[zeeeblob]

I personally think ANY camp can be very good or very bad for a runner. A runner is not made or broken in one week of running. If he gets injured BEFORE the season, then I would obviously say there was too drastic of an increase in miles, and THAT injured the runner, not the camp. (I know the miles were run at the camp, but the runner made that choice)

Back in 1992 when I ran at the Stevens Point camp I logged 65 miles in 5 days.....4 of the 5 days I did 3 runs in a day and played volleyball...no ultimate frisbee yet. I didn't get injured, but definitely should have gotten injured. I had done solid miles before the camp, so I'm sure that helped. Went on to have a great senior year.

I just don't believe that one week of camp can hurt your chances at state some 3 months later. If a runner fades at state it can't be linked to just one camp experience. I strongly believe it can be linked to what the runner did over the WHOLE summer.

As a point of reference, I coached Joe Stilin back in 2007. Joe was, is, and always will be an amazingly determined individual. We tried, after discussion, to bump his mileage heading into cross country; slowly, with no more than a 10% increase every 2-3 weeks. Joe, however, hammered almost every run and still ranks among the top 10 times ever recorded at the COC. His 10-12 mile runs later in the summer were averaging 5:45-5:50. His body recovers SO fast, so we didn't think it was detrimental....but it probably was. Joe's base miles were probably being treated like interval miles by his body, so that when footlocker rolled around he was done. He finished 5th at State......with terrible sickness and fever; he may have gotten 2-3 hours of sleep at most the night before. Pretty amazing testament to his grit. He would agree, though, that less is probably more. He is still working on that balance now, at Princeton.

That being said, the King program has benefited ENORMOUSLY from the camp of champions. Since 2006 we have had at least 5 runners (mostly boys) attend the camp with over 10 this year. The runners and I have had discussions and I hope that they realize when to recover and when to push the envelope with some fantastic runners to break up their summer training. To run with some of the best collegians and high school runners for one week has done amazing things for their confidence and work ethic. The questions they bring back to foster dialogue, along with knowledge, has been instrumental in building up the King program.

I understand the pros and cons of the camp, but I believe the pros outnumber the cons. Sorry, had to drop by two cents.....


Coach good points and I agree to some extent. But remember it takes roughly 10-14 days to reap the benefits of a workout (body type/genetics). Now after camp it may be roughly two weeks later where the training effects could have bad consequences for the athlete. Then you top it off with the training that they have put in before or after the camp. This is where good communication between the athlete and the coach comes into play from beginning to the end of the training season. I advice my runners to under perform during the time trials and then rip it the last portion of the camps. I also advice that they take the next week easier so that we can lesson the chance of them becoming injured. Many HS runners do not check their EGO's when they get to a camp and often run way to hard. Others may be able to find that they can push themselves beyond what they thought. I prefer that my runners to test themselves with their teammates or the smaller one day camps in our local area.

[kmatus]

Coach good points and I agree to some extent. But remember it takes roughly 10-14 days to reap the benefits of a workout (body type/genetics). Now after camp it may be roughly two weeks later where the training effects could have bad consequences for the athlete. Then you top it off with the training that they have put in before or after the camp. This is where good communication between the athlete and the coach comes into play from beginning to the end of the training season. I advice my runners to under perform during the time trials and then rip it the last portion of the camps. I also advice that they take the next week easier so that we can lesson the chance of them becoming injured. Many HS runners do not check their EGO's when they get to a camp and often run way to hard. Others may be able to find that they can push themselves beyond what they thought. I prefer that my runners to test themselves with their teammates or the smaller one day camps in our local area.

Coach - all of those are reasonable suggestions for your athletes. Probably the Monday time trail should be run like a solid tempo run. I think the key is to come in to the camp (or any week of workouts) prepared. I think the camp organizers would benefit the runners, parents, and coaches to give more information on what might be expected for runners at different levels. Maybe examples of what different groups at different levels would do in a typical year. Last year, in my son's first year there (after his freshman season), we had heard a little about the camp, so he was fairly well prepared, but still it would have been better to know more, directly from the camp organizers.

This year, after having been there a year, he was able to share a lot with a couple of other runners he talked in to coming to the camp with him. Because of his training leading up to this week, this will be a little bit of a down mileage week for him, but it will be the first week he will be running at a faster tempo (for some medical reasons) than he has all summer. So, I am monitoring him closely with text messages, and because he did not have the training he planned, he ended up down one group from where he originally hoped he would be, and in retrospect maybe that has turned out good. His roommate is in the group he originally wanted to be in though and the workouts seem to be fairly comparable. All of it boils down to the fact that he's having a blast, even if he falls asleep in the car on the way home. LOL!

Our season starts up with two meets in the 4th week of Aug, so knowing my son, he is not likely to back down next week, but try to use this to continue to progress into the season. He has the advantage of having a very good HS coach, who will regulate his training appropriately during the season.

I wish your team the best this season, and hope they all have healthy years.

[fairfield]

If the runner is smart and wise, then camps will probably be good. However, it is too easy for a misguided highschooler to misjudge their abilities and proper mileage. I have made that mistake many times myself.

[kmatus]

If the runner is smart and wise, then camps will probably be good. However, it is too easy for a misguided highschooler to misjudge their abilities and proper mileage. I have made that mistake many times myself.

fairfield - I do hear you.

However I think that sometimes we "over-scienced" this a bit two much (funny comment, coming from someone who does science for a living I guess). It did not seem that complicated 30 years ago. We ran how we felt over the summer. We had mileage targets, but we had no special workouts given to us. We rarely had coaching input outside of the season. I don't know if any more kids got hurt back then, than they do now. I think some kids get hurt and some kids don't. Some kids burn out and some kids don't.

I believe a good coach (and good team-mates to train with) can certainly enhance an athlete's performance. And, it is possible to over train a kid, and for a kid to over push himself, but I think there are very few kids who will over train themselves if left alone. Their bodies sort of self-regulate themselves. I know this is heresy in this world of the internet, running calculators, gps watches, etc., but I sometimes wonder if we aren't fooling ourselves a bit.

I suspect that a kid that is going to get hurt or burnout during the season would have gotten hurt or burn out with or without a camp at the end of July.

[fairfield]

fairfield - I do hear you.

However I think that sometimes we "over-scienced" this a bit two much (funny comment, coming from someone who does science for a living I guess). It did not seem that complicated 30 years ago. We ran how we felt over the summer. We had mileage targets, but we had no special workouts given to us. We rarely had coaching input outside of the season. I don't know if any more kids got hurt back then, than they do now. I think some kids get hurt and some kids don't. Some kids burn out and some kids don't.

I believe a good coach (and good team-mates to train with) can certainly enhance an athlete's performance. And, it is possible to over train a kid, and for a kid to over push himself, but I think there are very few kids who will over train themselves if left alone. Their bodies sort of self-regulate themselves. I know this is heresy in this world of the internet, running calculators, gps watches, etc., but I sometimes wonder if we aren't fooling ourselves a bit.

I suspect that a kid that is going to get hurt or burnout during the season would have gotten hurt or burn out with or without a camp at the end of July.

That makes a lot of sense. Perhaps in this world of technology people have grown to be distracted and therefor have trouble listening to their bodies? My personal problem has been trying too hard for specific times, rather then just getting fast and improving, which is what I have learned to go for instead. In other words, perhaps the problem is trying to force our bodies into speed instead of guiding our bodies into it. It is almost too easy to tell our bodies what to do and then just tune out its reactions, we need to listen just as much as we "tell", or maybe even more so. I guess the one fear though is undertraining...What if you could have pushed even harder and done more? Trust can be difficult to give.

[kmatus]

That makes a lot of sense. Perhaps in this world of technology people have grown to be distracted and therefor have trouble listening to their bodies? My personal problem has been trying too hard for specific times, rather then just getting fast and improving, which is what I have learned to go for instead. In other words, perhaps the problem is trying to force our bodies into speed instead of guiding our bodies into it. It is almost too easy to tell our bodies what to do and then just tune out its reactions, we need to listen just as much as we "tell", or maybe even more so. I guess the one fear though is undertraining...What if you could have pushed even harder and done more? Trust can be difficult to give.

Hey, I hear you on that too. My perspective on that, is hindsight stinks in that situation. More likely, if you care, you probably did push as hard as you could of at the time, it was just all you had. Not everyone is cut out to be Chris Solinsky (sp?). Work hard, race hard, and enjoy what you achieve whatever it is. Eventually you get old (and people's bodies age differently) and then it can all go so quickly.

[CCman]

It may not be really fair for me to comment on the C of C, because I never attended it as a runner, never worked it as a Badger runner and really have never promoted it as a high school coach to my athletes (although i have had some attend), but I think the biggest thing that an athlete can gain from this type of camp is not so much the physical preparation as much as the mental edge that can be gained.

It puts you in an environment with other runners who have big goals for the upcoming season. You are surrounded by an elite atmosphere in Madison of coaches and runners who have achieved great success. It gives you a way to evaluate or judge where you might be versus other runners going into the season, which can build mental confidence.

I will use the example of Jeff Meitler from Milwaukee Lutheran who I talked to and worked with throughout the summer in the MAD Running Club. He is an incoming junior who qualified for State last year in cross. He was basically a 17:00 sophomore who did very little training before the season. He also, for the most part, doesnt have many teammates that he can work with. Not only did he attend MAD every Monday with some nice runners from King, BrookEast, and Bay, but he went to his first C of C in the 1st session. We actually had to convince him that he needed a pair of real running shorts if he wanted to fit in at camp. He still wears the basketball shorts. He told me that his 1st camp was great. He made group 2 and felt very good about his training throughout the week and that he was ready for it. He also was able to compare himself to other WI runners that were at camp that made group 3 and 4 and most importantly was surrounded by serious runners. This mental edge should help Meitler going into his Junior year. Only time will tell.

My concerns about these camps is the big cost involved with only 5 days of work. They promote the camp with names and speakers but for the most part, the runners only hear from the Badger coaches and runners. I'm also concerned that some runners see this camp as a quick fix to their upcoming season or a cram session before the test of the real season. As experienced runners and coaches know, real running success comes in the day to day, week by week progression that takes place over time.

I will be coaching my freshmen son next year who hopes to have great success in high school running. Should I send him to C of C knowing that I can closely guide and monitor his progress and training before and after camp? Only time will tell.

[marathonman]

Should I send him to C of C knowing that I can closely guide and monitor his progress and training before and after camp? Only time will tell.
You've got a couple of dads who have their boys in Week 2, Groups 1 & 2, on this thread so we'll be able to give you our perspective. I know we are very concerned about the development of our sons and ensuring that they don't blow a gasket before or during the season.

[kmatus]

It may not be really fair for me to comment on the C of C, because I never attended it as a runner, never worked it as a Badger runner and really have never promoted it as a high school coach to my athletes (although i have had some attend), but I think the biggest thing that an athlete can gain from this type of camp is not so much the physical preparation as much as the mental edge that can be gained.

It puts you in an environment with other runners who have big goals for the upcoming season. You are surrounded by an elite atmosphere in Madison of coaches and runners who have achieved great success. It gives you a way to evaluate or judge where you might be versus other runners going into the season, which can build mental confidence.

I will use the example of Jeff Meitler from Milwaukee Lutheran who I talked to and worked with throughout the summer in the MAD Running Club. He is an incoming junior who qualified for State last year in cross. He was basically a 17:00 sophomore who did very little training before the season. He also, for the most part, doesnt have many teammates that he can work with. Not only did he attend MAD every Monday with some nice runners from King, BrookEast, and Bay, but he went to his first C of C in the 1st session. We actually had to convince him that he needed a pair of real running shorts if he wanted to fit in at camp. He still wears the basketball shorts. He told me that his 1st camp was great. He made group 2 and felt very good about his training throughout the week and that he was ready for it. He also was able to compare himself to other WI runners that were at camp that made group 3 and 4 and most importantly was surrounded by serious runners. This mental edge should help Meitler going into his Junior year. Only time will tell.

My concerns about these camps is the big cost involved with only 5 days of work. They promote the camp with names and speakers but for the most part, the runners only hear from the Badger coaches and runners. I'm also concerned that some runners see this camp as a quick fix to their upcoming season or a cram session before the test of the real season. As experienced runners and coaches know, real running success comes in the day to day, week by week progression that takes place over time.

I will be coaching my freshmen son next year who hopes to have great success in high school running. Should I send him to C of C knowing that I can closely guide and monitor his progress and training before and after camp? Only time will tell.

I agree totally with your statements in first paragraph. My son runs at a school where CC and track are not the "big" sports, at all. Even on there CC and track teams, there are a lot of nice kids, but most are not very serious about running. He has LOVED (this is his 2nd year) being around a bunch of kids who do care, and who have motivation and aspiration that resemble his own.

So, I think C of C is a good fit for him. He is self-motivated to train himself for the summer, and this week (at C of C) will actually be a down mileage week for him. I am sure it's not a fit for everyone. But, for a runner who is interested in running and likes all the other activities as well, I think it it fun. You mentioned the high cost, but considering they are in a dorm for a week, on a meal plan (and my son says they eat VERY good), maybe it's not so bad.

I wish you and your son luck. Even with the ups and downs of a career, I've had a blast watching my son's first two years and I look forward to these next two, and scraping up the money for the camp is well worth it for me, since he has so much fun there.

[MadwestCC]

Just got back. Camp was great!!!
So, the the wisco runners that did well at the camp and at the last race were:
Garrett Patrick, Columbus (4th)
Brett Johnson, St. Croix Central (7th)
Sam Hacker, Madison West (8th) (Just fooled around a lot the last race)
Tommy Meister, Janesville Craig (9th) (Last second high five with Sam)
Robbie McDonald, Neenah (11th)
Jonah Barry, Madison West (14th)
and
Eric Anderson, Rufus King (Didn't mention place because he just had fun with the giant marsh at the race)
Joseph Morgan, Rufus King (Was in group two with Robbie and me. But I don't really know what happened to him on Saturday)

The Wisco Girls cleaned up. Even though I don't know what places they got.
Jenna McMiller, Waukesha North (1st)(Apparently she's running like 80 mpw. She kicked some ass at this camp)
Sammi Donovan, Waukesha North
Lauren Holtz, Homestead
Olivia Pratt, Madison West
Elena Barham, Madison West

[runninggartman]

Camp really was an awesome week.
As far as the getting injured stuff us wisconsin guys in group one actually took it pretty easy to avoid that. The illinios guys all decided to hammer on our easy hour run so a group of guys with like meister, patrick, johnson, and hacker from group one just ran on our own. Our counselour Elliot Krause pretty much just made every workout correct for where we are in our summer training cause he knew about the people getting injured racing all week in camp, and i'm sure group one actually ended up running slower than the groups 2-3 that raced workouts.

And johnson would prolly have been further out, but that oar guy from city needed to be beaten haha so brett lead the race out then jogged. I ended up 4th in the race to finish up madwests list. I know a bunch of other king guys also just took it through the puddle for fun, they totally coulda been up further too. Hacker and meister definetely did just screw around, and it was pretty hilarious.

Gotta say tho that Jenna Mcmiller was beast at camp. She ran 15:04 for the 2.7 mile eval run which woulda put her in group four for guys. She was the first girl in the eval by like a minute.

The camp was definetely fun tho for the non running aspects too, and even with the pretty high cost i'd definetely reccomend it just for the fun of it if not the workouts and education.

[Zen Miler]

Madison West and Milwaukee King should have nice 1-2 combos this fall. I'm sure there are many other programs with great 1-2s but based off of camp it looks good for the Regents and Generals.

[runninggartman]

I'd agree with that for sure. West and King sent most of their teams and they all ran well. I'm lookin forward to watching the battle between the 2, tho i wouldn't look too much into the camp results for the final race since they had fun playing in the marsh during the race.

[kmatus]

I took a lot of good pix of both races today. Even though many of you ran just for fun - I am uploading to my flickr site and will post the link when it finishes uploading - may take all nite......

[MadwestCC]

Alright. Could you post a link as soon as you're done uploading 'em? I kind of want to see them.

[kmatus]

Ok, here is the link - they are on my Flickr site. Some pix of the girls' race and more of the boys' race (156 pix in total). The pix were all uploaded at full size, and Flickr will allow you to download any of the pix (for free) in full size mode or some fraction of it. Enjoy!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12567546@N07/sets/72157624500646249

[kmatus]

I am also one of those out of staters :cool:

Great kick to the finish on Saturday.

[neenah1944]

haha yeah that final race was kind of just a big screw around i was enjoying my zebra shorts a little too much to try to kill it, and its only july so it didnt really matter how it all ended up. Camp was amazingg though!

[MadwestCC]

Ok, here is the link - they are on my Flickr site. Some pix of the girls' race and more of the boys' race (156 pix in total). The pix were all uploaded at full size, and Flickr will allow you to download any of the pix (for free) in full size mode or some fraction of it. Enjoy!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12567546@N07/sets/72157624500646249

Thanks!

[realtalk14]

Camp really was an awesome week.
As far as the getting injured stuff us wisconsin guys in group one actually took it pretty easy to avoid that. The illinios guys all decided to hammer on our easy hour run so a group of guys with like meister, patrick, johnson, and hacker from group one just ran on our own. Our counselour Elliot Krause pretty much just made every workout correct for where we are in our summer training cause he knew about the people getting injured racing all week in camp, and i'm sure group one actually ended up running slower than the groups 2-3 that raced workouts.

And johnson would prolly have been further out, but that oar guy from city needed to be beaten haha so brett lead the race out then jogged. I ended up 4th in the race to finish up madwests list. I know a bunch of other king guys also just took it through the puddle for fun, they totally coulda been up further too. Hacker and meister definetely did just screw around, and it was pretty hilarious.

Gotta say tho that Jenna Mcmiller was beast at camp. She ran 15:04 for the 2.7 mile eval run which woulda put her in group four for guys. She was the first girl in the eval by like a minute.

The camp was definetely fun tho for the non running aspects too, and even with the pretty high cost i'd definetely reccomend it just for the fun of it if not the workouts and education.

wierd...your talking about yourself again, this time even referring to yourself in third person!

[BRF_CC11]

wierd...your talking about yourself again, this time even referring to yourself in third person!
Dude get off his back man. He's just relaying his experience to other people honestly i think you have a problem with him. Maybe a couple times he was talking up himself but not all his comments that included him were bragging.

[SCCXC11]

Line of the week was from that nutrition guy, "The S*** is POISON ladies and gentlemen!"

[Shuttle_Cock]

wierd...your talking about yourself again, this time even referring to yourself in third person!


First of all, he was completing the MadWest guy's list which he clearly stated. 2nd of all, the part where you said he was talking himself up in the 3rd person was actually in the 1st person. I clearly see the word "I" in that sentence. Basic elementary school grammar. You spelled weird wrong, too. Allow me to spell it for you. W-E-I-R-D. Weird. Third grammatical mistake in here is the wrong "Your." The your you are thinking of is you're. It's a contraction. I'll even use it in a sentence for you. "Realtalk14, you're a troll." And last but not least...your two sentences do not need a comma in between them. They are both complete sentences. So add a period at the end of again. Then capitalize the word "This." Congrats! You have made it through basic grammar for idiots. :)

[kmatus]

First of all, he was completing the MadWest guy's list which he clearly stated. 2nd of all, the part where you said he was talking himself up in the 3rd person was actually in the 1st person. I clearly see the word "I" in that sentence. Basic elementary school grammar. You spelled weird wrong, too. Allow me to spell it for you. W-E-I-R-D. Weird. Third grammatical mistake in here is the wrong "Your." The your you are thinking of is you're. It's a contraction. I'll even use it in a sentence for you. "Realtalk14, you're a troll." And last but not least...your two sentences do not need a comma in between them. They are both complete sentences. So add a period at the end of again. Then capitalize the word "This." Congrats! You have made it through basic grammar for idiots. :)

I'm in the wrong place. I thought this was a discussion thread on running, not some site discussing English grammar.

Lighten up.

And I agree with the other poster. Who cares even if the kid was talking about himself?

[realtalk14]

First of all, he was completing the MadWest guy's list which he clearly stated. 2nd of all, the part where you said he was talking himself up in the 3rd person was actually in the 1st person. I clearly see the word "I" in that sentence. Basic elementary school grammar. You spelled weird wrong, too. Allow me to spell it for you. W-E-I-R-D. Weird. Third grammatical mistake in here is the wrong "Your." The your you are thinking of is you're. It's a contraction. I'll even use it in a sentence for you. "Realtalk14, you're a troll." And last but not least...your two sentences do not need a comma in between them. They are both complete sentences. So add a period at the end of again. Then capitalize the word "This." Congrats! You have made it through basic grammar for idiots. :)

hey bro just to be fair to everyone on this site, i think it's your duty to go through all the posts on track talk and correct every grammatical errors you see..and he did refer to himself in third person by listing himself as "patrick" and not "me or I".
I'm in the wrong place. I thought this was a discussion thread on running, not some site discussing English grammar.

Lighten up.

And I agree with the other poster. Who cares even if the kid was talking about himself?

I wouldn't comment on it if it was once or twice..but go look at all his posts, and idk if you were part of the old dyestat but NOBODY and i mean NOBODY who ran would ever talk about themselves and their running successes.

[CCman]

If I can be so bold as to give some experienced advice to the newer adult posters on tracktalk, after many years of being involved with the old dyestat and then moving to this new message board, it really is wise to be very careful with the type of banter that you have with the young runners on the board. Even constructive criticism can create garbage between adult and teenager. I have seen it get very ugly. Just ask the experienced posters about Hall.

[Shuttle_Cock]

I'm in the wrong place. I thought this was a discussion thread on running, not some site discussing English grammar.


Yes sir. You are in the wrong place if you don't know how big of a dbag this realtalk guy is. He rips on everybody who dares to speak out against him. This Runninggartman guy gets it worse than anybody else. Realtalk: This isn't the "Old" Dyestat anymore. This is the "New" Dyestat. Yes he did refer to himself in the third person. But saying that he ran with Meister, Hacker, and Johnson wasn't him talking himself up. That was him saying that he ran with those three guys. The part where he said anything about how he did clearly said "I got 4th." And "Bro" it's obviously your job to go and rip on everybody whenever they question you. We all know you graduated so why are you on here ripping on these guys? Go on the college board or something and rip on people your own age. These are 15-17 year olds you are ripping up. They don't need this.

[cinnastix]

First of all, he was completing the MadWest guy's list which he clearly stated. 2nd of all, the part where you said he was talking himself up in the 3rd person was actually in the 1st person. I clearly see the word "I" in that sentence. Basic elementary school grammar. You spelled weird wrong, too. Allow me to spell it for you. W-E-I-R-D. Weird. Third grammatical mistake in here is the wrong "Your." The your you are thinking of is you're. It's a contraction. I'll even use it in a sentence for you. "Realtalk14, you're a troll." And last but not least...your two sentences do not need a comma in between them. They are both complete sentences. So add a period at the end of again. Then capitalize the word "This." Congrats! You have made it through basic grammar for idiots. :)

I bet you have so many friends

[kmatus]

Yes sir. You are in the wrong place if you don't know how big of a dbag this realtalk guy is. He rips on everybody who dares to speak out against him. This Runninggartman guy gets it worse than anybody else. Realtalk: This isn't the "Old" Dyestat anymore. This is the "New" Dyestat. Yes he did refer to himself in the third person. But saying that he ran with Meister, Hacker, and Johnson wasn't him talking himself up. That was him saying that he ran with those three guys. The part where he said anything about how he did clearly said "I got 4th." And "Bro" it's obviously your job to go and rip on everybody whenever they question you. We all know you graduated so why are you on here ripping on these guys? Go on the college board or something and rip on people your own age. These are 15-17 year olds you are ripping up. They don't need this.

I don't know that I have ripped anybody on this site, and certainly not in this thread. So as long as your being so picky about posts, you might want to make sure that your comments are going to the correct posters.

I wasn't dealing with any old posts, just this one. Obviously you have some hostility built up with him, so I'll certainly bow out of this discussion.

[Zen Miler]

I don't know that I have ripped anybody on this site, and certainly not in this thread. So as long as your being so picky about posts, you might want to make sure that your comments are going to the correct posters.

I wasn't dealing with any old posts, just this one. Obviously you have some hostility built up with him, so I'll certainly bow out of this discussion.

Thank you for sharing the photos you took at the Camp of Champs.

[kmatus]

Thank you for sharing the photos you took at the Camp of Champs.

You are welcome. Apparently it was a great group of kids in week 2 (I assume week 1 was the same). Every one of the campers I talked to had a blast.

[Zen Miler]

I attended this camp three times in high school. The initial time was before my first cross country season. While the faces may have changed, I believe the camp itself has stayed the same. I had a blast there and found the camp to be extremely helpful. It also assured me dropping soccer was the right choice.

[runninggartman]

Yes sir. You are in the wrong place if you don't know how big of a dbag this realtalk guy is. He rips on everybody who dares to speak out against him. This Runninggartman guy gets it worse than anybody else. Realtalk: This isn't the "Old" Dyestat anymore. This is the "New" Dyestat. Yes he did refer to himself in the third person. But saying that he ran with Meister, Hacker, and Johnson wasn't him talking himself up. That was him saying that he ran with those three guys. The part where he said anything about how he did clearly said "I got 4th." And "Bro" it's obviously your job to go and rip on everybody whenever they question you. We all know you graduated so why are you on here ripping on these guys? Go on the college board or something and rip on people your own age. These are 15-17 year olds you are ripping up. They don't need this.

Exactly BlahBlah. I was saying the guys I ran with not because they were good but because they were people I ran with and hung out with this whole week and they're people we all know. I posted about this to dispel some of the rumors about this camp being the wrong training with racing in workouts for this part in the season. I said I got 4th just to complete Madwests list. The race was not about beating people or about time, it was just somthing we all had fun with and screwed around in. I raced with a big SB on my chest and back for team SillyBands for christs sake. And realtalk this isn't the old dyestat, us younger posters may not be 100% familiar with all your motivations, but seriously you need somthing better to do than rip on high schoolers.

I also gotta say you had some good pics kmatus. Thanks for sharing, we all really did have the best weeks of our summers.

[runninggartman]

Oh and Kmatus would it be all right if i took some of the pics for facebook? I know a bunch of people that prolly didn't get any pics and would like some so i can just tag them on facebook.

[TheLemon17]

Exactly BlahBlah. I was saying the guys I ran with not because they were good but because they were people I ran with and hung out with this whole week and they're people we all know. I posted about this to dispel some of the rumors about this camp being the wrong training with racing in workouts for this part in the season. I said I got 4th just to complete Madwests list. The race was not about beating people or about time, it was just somthing we all had fun with and screwed around in. I raced with a big SB on my chest and back for team SillyBands for christs sake. And realtalk this isn't the old dyestat, us younger posters may not be 100% familiar with all your motivations, but seriously you need somthing better to do than rip on high schoolers.

I also gotta say you had some good pics kmatus. Thanks for sharing, we all really did have the best weeks of our summers.

did you have katie as your frisbee coach? purple paint by any chance? i had her for week 1.

[runninggartman]

haha yup we had katie mccormack too. You guys use purple paint for your uniforms too?

[kmatus]

Oh and Kmatus would it be all right if i took some of the pics for facebook? I know a bunch of people that prolly didn't get any pics and would like some so i can just tag them on facebook.

Yes, of course you can (but thanks for being so polite to ask). They should all be available for download. If you have any trouble, message me. I was taking pix of my son and his buddies, and it was not much more work to take more pix (I feel bad about missing the girls' finishers but they changed the course from the year before and I missed getting over to the finish in time) and just do the upload over nite. Since they were full size pix, it was something like 180 Mb.

I wish we had something like this when I was in high school, but it would have taken awhile to get to Madison from Chicago on horse and carriage.

[JMegs13]

I'm in the wrong place. I thought this was a discussion thread on running, not some site discussing English grammar.

Lighten up.
He was just trying to capitalize on an incredibly ironic post.
If I can be so bold as to give some experienced advice to the newer adult posters on tracktalk, after many years of being involved with the old dyestat and then moving to this new message board, it really is wise to be very careful with the type of banter that you have with the young runners on the board. Even constructive criticism can create garbage between adult and teenager. I have seen it get very ugly. Just ask the experienced posters about Hall.
Oh, Chris Hall...hahaha. What a dude.
I wouldn't comment on it if it was once or twice..but go look at all his posts, and idk if you were part of the old dyestat but NOBODY and i mean NOBODY who ran would ever talk about themselves and their running successes.
When did you join the old Dyestat?

[Shuttle_Cock]

I bet you have so many friends


You too. I bet people just flock your parents' basement every weekend.

[zeeeblob]

If I can be so bold as to give some experienced advice to the newer adult posters on tracktalk, after many years of being involved with the old dyestat and then moving to this new message board, it really is wise to be very careful with the type of banter that you have with the young runners on the board. Even constructive criticism can create garbage between adult and teenager. I have seen it get very ugly. Just ask the experienced posters about Hall.

Not to forget "Daddy"! I hope this bantering will end soon with the CC season just being two weeks away!

[WhiteBuffalo]

Wow. I used to come on here to read about running. But instead, now I get to read about everyone criticizing each other. It's almost a shame.... :eek: but back to the C of C, I didn't do it this year because I didn't think I would really have a good time, but from what everyone is saying, and from kmatus's sweet pics (thank you), I think I'll seriously consider doing it next year...... but I'm definitely rooming with a teammate.

[runninggartman]

but I'm definitely rooming with a teammate

Dude even tho it sounds better to room with a teammate i met some awesome people and had a better time just cause i didn't room with a teammate.

[ItalianRunner6]

Dude even tho it sounds better to room with a teammate i met some awesome people and had a better time just cause i didn't room with a teammate.

Yeah, but like my first year I had the worst roommate ever. I honestly could not stand him. And then this year he was in my training group and he pushed the pace every run, the whole way:mad: . But, this year I had a much better roommate, so I guess it's just luck if you have a good/bad roommate.

[runninggartman]

That would suck to have a bad roomate. I guess both years for me i came in knowing nobody so my roomate got me in with a bunch of cool people. As far as pushing the pace if it gets to fast just run on your own with other guys that won't. A whole group of us did that on the thrs. of this year and i'm glad we did.

[watch me run]

This was the best week ever! So much fun! I am so glad that I did this camp!

[runninggartman]

@Kmatus I got any pics where you could recognize people uploaded. I'm tagging as many people as I can make out and hopefully others will tag some too. Thanks for some great photos.

[kmatus]

@Kmatus I got any pics where you could recognize people uploaded. I'm tagging as many people as I can make out and hopefully others will tag some too. Thanks for some great photos.

A bunch of the IL guys are using the group picture at the end for their FB profile pic. They also started a Camp of Champions FB group ....or so I'm told.

[runninggartman]

haha yup i joined that group. people are already planning our reunions.

[marathonman]

haha yup i joined that group. people are already planning our reunions.

I'd call C of C a success, no matter the cost. Stay healthy, boys!

[kmatus]

haha yup i joined that group. people are already planning our reunions.

Cool - have fun. I think that's what running is about. Not nit picking over someone's grammar.

[JMegs13]

Cool - have fun. I think that's what running is about. Not nit picking over someone's grammar.
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/4/21/129163616079429390.gif

[watch me run]

Oh and Kmatus would it be all right if i took some of the pics for facebook? I know a bunch of people that prolly didn't get any pics and would like some so i can just tag them on facebook.

Do you think it'd be alright if I could do the same thing, Kmatus?

[kmatus]

Do you think it'd be alright if I could do the same thing, Kmatus?

Again, thank you for being so polite. Yes of course you can. I posted them for anyone to use or see.

I know you guys are having fun on FB with the pix and your new C of C FB Group and I hope you guys can get together for a run, before the school year starts.

Just remember to show them to your parents as well - we get a kick out of pix of our kids.

[ILrunna]

Sorry to bump this back up but I didn't wanna start a whole new thread.

Is there a dance or something on the last day of the camp, how is that?

How are the showering facilities, and is there a lot of free time between the running? Are the kids allowed to wander around Madison or what happens when the runs are not in session?

[runninggartman]

The dance is like the second to last night if I remember right. It's pretty decent, not overly huge, but the counselours run it so it turns out to be pretty fun.

Showering facilities are nice, individual showers at least.

There's plenty of free time. You have early morning and afternoon workouts, but other than that theres plenty of time. I know we had time to head down to state st, walk the rest of madison, and just hang out with some pretty cool people. Ultimate frisbee takes up some time too but that's really fun.

As far as wandering Madison goes thats kinda a "not allowed, but we'll look the other way". Like I'm from the madison area so I took a bunch of our guys on some tours of the town, but as long as you talk to your counselour and they know you're gone it's cool, the counselours are colllege runners and want you to have fun at madison. Just don't get caught getting back late or skipping sessions, then you may have to do like an hour of wall sits or a 1 a.m. 2 hour ab session like i've seen happen to kids.

Overall it's a great week. You meet some great kids and Madison is the perfect place for this kinda thing.