College Basketball 2010-2011

[Eva N]

Syracuse still the worst team in D1

Not until DePaul folds their team. :rolleyes:

Cuse's guard play in the half-court is pathetic, though.

[boltoncct&f]

Calipari can flat out coach whether you like him or not. He took Kentucky to the Elite 8 in year one by taking every Memphis recruit he had and taking them to UK, leaving Memphis with nothing. The thanks he gave them for resurrecting his carrier. How many coaches have replaced a coach who has been fired the previous year and done that without totally ***tting on his previous team ? Not too many. Actually, none. Nobody would be that scummy. He took UMass and Memphis to the final 4 and proceeded to have both those trips stripped from the record books. That speaks for itself.



Fixed

[freerun13]

Chris Diaz is right, the best rivalry is on tonight, Syracuse vs. Georgetown.

Not at all their games are not even close to the intensity of unc and duke

[skurey]

Not at all their games are not even close to the intensity of unc and duke

Yeah you're right because intensity is a quantifiable thing.

[young money]

Fixed
wait, so Calipari forced those recruits to come to UK?

[boltoncct&f]

wait, so Calipari forced those recruits to come to UK?
No, he told our AD that "we could not get any of these recruits unless they were allowed out of their commitments if, for some reason, he were not to be the coach of Memphis". All along knowing he was splitting Memphis and taking the recruits with him. Sure, it's our AD's fault for falling for that BS, but LOW DOWN none the less.

[freerun13]

Unc is just wiping the floor with Duke right now!

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Not until DePaul folds their team. :rolleyes:

Cuse's guard play in the half-court is pathetic, though.

Rick Jackson is still a force down low. I love that guy.

[skurey]

Rick Jackson is still a force down low. I love that guy.

dude no watch the game dude geez

played awful tonight, probably due to lack of touches and him in foul trouble all game but come on man

Jackson is like the 3rd best player on the worst team in D1

[therunner12]

dude no watch the game dude geez

played awful tonight, probably due to lack of touches and him in foul trouble all game but come on man

Jackson is like the 3rd best player on the worst team in D1

Well, they are...

[young money]

No, he told our AD that "we could not get any of these recruits unless they were allowed out of their commitments if, for some reason, he were not to be the coach of Memphis". All along knowing he was splitting Memphis and taking the recruits with him. Sure, it's our AD's fault for falling for that BS, but LOW DOWN none the less.
it's infinitely scummier to not let recruits out of their LOI when a coach leaves

[TeamOrange]

So Duke was down 10 and I stopped paying attention and now they are up 6. What happened? Looks like this kid Seth Curry stepped up

[therunner12]

Thank you God for BJ Holmes.

[usnspecialist]

technically neither of those ever happened

i believe memphis still has theirs (at least for right now).

[TeamOrange]

i believe memphis still has theirs (at least for right now).

Nope

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4412279

[Conigs]

Thank you Idaho for proving, once again, that Utah State sucks.

Pollsters, take note. When a team is 22-2, with their only 2 games against top-100 teams as losses, they probably shouldn't be ranked. Just fyi.

[boltoncct&f]

it's infinitely scummier to not let recruits out of their LOI when a coach leaves
You know, I always thought you knew your stuff. Your making yourself look bad here. So let's try this again:

Calipari had these guys sign LOI's to Memphis KNOWING ALL ALONG he was heading to UK. Even the recruits knew it. Xavier Henry (guess where he plays pro ball now;) ) confirmed that, and his faimily did not like the scumminess, so he went to Kansas. Our current coach, Pastner, was in on it. Basically, he got the opportunity ($$$) of a lifetime ,at such an early age, and I do think we paid him for information on how all of that went down. He basically ratted out the whole deal that the entire staff had cooked up.

So Calipari is scum.

[FIRE CHIEF]

You know, I always thought you knew your stuff. Your making yourself look bad here. So let's try this again:

Calipari had these guys sign LOI's to Memphis KNOWING ALL ALONG he was heading to UK. Even the recruits knew it. Xavier Henry (guess where he plays pro ball now;) ) confirmed that, and his faimily did not like the scumminess, so he went to Kansas. Our current coach, Pastner, was in on it. Basically, he go the opportunity ($$$) of a lifetime at such an early age and I do think we paid him for information on how all of that went down. He basically ratted out the whole deal that the entire staff had cooked up.

So Calipari is scum.

So how would you have handled the situation if you were Calipari? Because I would have done it the exact same way.

[boltoncct&f]

So how would you have handled the situation if you were Calipari? Because I would have done it the exact same way.
If I'm going to another school, I'm NOT going to have recruits sign LOI's at all. He should have told to sit tight and sign LOI's to UK, after he announces he is leaving Memphis and going to UK. But then it would have busted him out that all of the recruits that he was after all just happened to be waiting on their decision. So he bailed on the Memphis program mid season, which is pure scum. We even offered him more money than UK, but he knew that some of those guys only comitted to hiim based on the fact that they would end up at Kentucky. So he would then loose an entire recruiting class by staying at Memphis (with the exception of Xavier Henry), thus exposing his lack of coaching skills (though he did know how to motivate the players). Tyreke Evans was even upset by how it all went down.

So, I guess if you are all about back stabbing people who trust in you, then yeah, I guess could do it the same way he did.

[young money]

If cal had no one sign LOI then all you Memphis folk would have crucified him for looking past the season before he even got the UK job. It just looks like sour grapes to everyone who isn't a diehard memphis fan. Calipari was too big for Memphis, I mean look at the recruits he was pulling in to play in ****ty c-usa. you sound like a jilted lover or something. Calipari was the best thing to ever happen to the Memphis program, he put you guys on the map, but at some point you gotta realize that Memphis is what it is. Why coach the JV when you can coach the Varsity?

[FIRE CHIEF]

First off it's a joke to even pretend Memphis could offer more than Kentucky. Are you serious?

Secondly, what if Gillespe went on a long run that year and Kentucky couldn't fire him??? Then Cal has no recruits for Memphis and you guys say he's an idiot for that.

Like YM said, Calipari built Memphis. Pastner is on the verge of ruining it. But that is besides the point. Calipari did what he had to do. He passed up multiple jobs to stay at Memphis as long as he did. NC State offered him way more than Memphis could afford after the 06 season. He stayed. Oklahoma State offered him more than Memphis could at one point. He stayed. Get real here. Calipari did what anybody in his position would have done. What if he left for Kentucky without all those players? They weren't going to Memphis because they liked the school. They were going there for Calipari and his proven record of getting one and dones drafted. Four kids did. Had Memphis not let those kids out of their LOI's then they would have massive recruiting problems in the future.

It absolutely boggles my mind how anybody can be critical of how the situation panned out. The only reason you are so bitter is because boy wonder Pastner CAN'T COACH. Just like I predicted two years ago. You guys are nothing more than UAB, UTEP or Houston. Mediocre C-USA programs who might make a run every few years. Get used to it.

[therunner12]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Orton

Why did he go to the NBA/why did he get drafted?

[Conigs]

NC State offered him way more than Memphis could afford after the 06 season. He stayed.

Anyone smart would have stayed. NC State is the worst job in the nation. Always in the shadow of Duke and UNC.

[young money]

Anyone smart would have stayed. NC State is the worst job in the nation. Always in the shadow of Duke and UNC.
hardly. NC State has some solid history itself and there is plenty of basketball talent that comes out of North Carolina to go around, especially since both Duke and UNC recruit so many guys from all over the place. Far from the worst job in the nation, that school is just dumb when it comes to their coaching choices is all.

[boltoncct&f]

If cal had no one sign LOI then all you Memphis folk would have crucified him for looking past the season before he even got the UK job. It just looks like sour grapes to everyone who isn't a diehard memphis fan. Calipari was too big for Memphis, I mean look at the recruits he was pulling in to play in ****ty c-usa. you sound like a jilted lover or something. Calipari was the best thing to ever happen to the Memphis program, he put you guys on the map, but at some point you gotta realize that Memphis is what it is. Why coach the JV when you can coach the Varsity?

First off it's a joke to even pretend Memphis could offer more than Kentucky. Are you serious?

Secondly, what if Gillespe went on a long run that year and Kentucky couldn't fire him??? Then Cal has no recruits for Memphis and you guys say he's an idiot for that.

Like YM said, Calipari built Memphis. Pastner is on the verge of ruining it. But that is besides the point. Calipari did what he had to do. He passed up multiple jobs to stay at Memphis as long as he did. NC State offered him way more than Memphis could afford after the 06 season. He stayed. Oklahoma State offered him more than Memphis could at one point. He stayed. Get real here. Calipari did what anybody in his position would have done. What if he left for Kentucky without all those players? They weren't going to Memphis because they liked the school. They were going there for Calipari and his proven record of getting one and dones drafted. Four kids did. Had Memphis not let those kids out of their LOI's then they would have massive recruiting problems in the future.

It absolutely boggles my mind how anybody can be critical of how the situation panned out. The only reason you are so bitter is because boy wonder Pastner CAN'T COACH. Just like I predicted two years ago. You guys are nothing more than UAB, UTEP or Houston. Mediocre C-USA programs who might make a run every few years. Get used to it.
I don't know where to even begin:confused:

Where do you all get your info, and why would you think you know more about it than someone who went there, is part of the athletic club, and have multiple people on the inside. That someone being me.

Let's start with "putting Memphis on the map":eek: That discredits everything you say about Memphis, or you are only about 12 years old. Memphis has been on the map since the early 70's. Do the research if you don't belive me. Did he right the ship after the Tic Price experiment? Yes, but Memphis was a regular at the tournament prior to the Price era.

We offered Cal a 5 million a year contract. What is he making at UK? I think it is 4 million a year. I don't know..... I'm not the best at math, but.....

FC, I don't agree with your thrid paragraph, but I can see where an outsider might think that. And that would include recruits, I guess.

Pastner is learning on the job, but he continues to get the top players, so your aguments on players not wanting to come to Memphis does not hold water. We will get 5 star players in 2012 and 2013 as well. You heard it here first. Pastner's only flaw, and I've already said it, is that he refuses to get overly angry. I just don't think that will work with these type of players.

And finally, look at the RPI's of some of these C-USA teams you are putting down. Look at the list of ranked teams who have fallen to teams in this "mediocre" conference.

Memphis is struggling this year for three reasons. Kendrick (who would probably have been a one and done player and our top recruit) got tossed from the team, Garcia went pro in Europe out of the blue, and Whitherspoon (our best player) hurt his knee right off the bat, tried to play through it, and has sat out a ton of games because he was flat out sucking out there. He finally may come back this weekend, but I would be surprised if he is up to snuff. So we are tossing 4 and sometimes 5 freshmen out on the court at any give time. That was not in the cards going into this season. So you can't put our mediocre record squarely on Pastner. That is if you can call an 18-6 record mediocre.

[TeamOrange]

I just don't like the way he built his teams. He had something like a 0% graduation rate, probably payed off his players a decent amount to come to his schools, when his school was about to be slapped with a violation he jumps ship. And he isn't a great Xs and Os coach, he just utilizes his player for a year and then they go the NBA. He had 5 players drafted in the 1st round and didn't win a championship. 4 of whom are freshman and 2 were top 5 picks.

No way any part of his recruiting is legitimate

[FIRE CHIEF]

I just don't like the way he built his teams. He had something like a 0% graduation rate, probably payed off his players a decent amount to come to his schools, when his school was about to be slapped with a violation he jumps ship. And he isn't a great Xs and Os coach, he just utilizes his player for a year and then they go the NBA. He had 5 players drafted in the 1st round and didn't win a championship. 4 of whom are freshman and 2 were top 5 picks.

No way any part of his recruiting is legitimate

I think that would indicate he is legit with recruiting. If you want to get drafted and aren't interested in college, he's a perfect fit for you.

NC State btw is a sleeping giant. They just have the worst coach in major college basketball not named Ed DeChellis or Paul Hewitt. Actually he's worse than Hewitt. Curtis Lowe would be a better coach than Sidney Lowe. I wouldn't be shocked if they got a huge name like Jay Wright there next year.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

LET'S SO RICK JACKSON! I'm still not sold on Louisville this year though. Knowles is great. Siva is as well. If they had Rick Jackson, they wouldn't lose.

Also, OSU over Wisco today. OSU won't lose again. (regular season)

[FIRE CHIEF]

Louisville to me is the third best team in the Big East behind Notre Dame and Pitt.

[Conigs]

I think that would indicate he is legit with recruiting. If you want to get drafted and aren't interested in college, he's a perfect fit for you.

NC State btw is a sleeping giant. They just have the worst coach in major college basketball not named Ed DeChellis or Paul Hewitt. Actually he's worse than Hewitt. Curtis Lowe would be a better coach than Sidney Lowe. I wouldn't be shocked if they got a huge name like Jay Wright there next year.

Why would someone like Jay Wright leave one of the consistently best teams in the nation in Villanova go to some place like NC State? That's really, really dumb.

[skurey]

Syracuse living up to the hype of being the worst team in D1. They won't beat Louisville until the Big East collapses.

Also willing to bet 20 bucks they lose in the first round, any takers?

[young money]

Syracuse living up to the hype of being the worst team in D1. They won't beat Louisville until the Big East collapses.

Also willing to bet 20 bucks they lose in the first round, any takers?
no one wants to help you try to reverse jinx your team.

[skurey]

I'm just trying to make some money without resorting to BJs in the bathroom at Walmart.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Syracuse living up to the hype of being the worst team in D1. They won't beat Louisville until the Big East collapses.

Also willing to bet 20 bucks they lose in the first round, any takers?

Will potentially make a bet on them making the Sweet 16. Depends on the second round matchup, seeing as they will easily handle the first round.

[therunner12]

Syracuse living up to the hype of being the worst team in D1. They won't beat Louisville until the Big East collapses.

Also willing to bet 20 bucks they lose in the first round, any takers?

Well, they are...

[hoegher]

SO EXCITED.

And nervous.

EDIT: SOMG ZOMG ZOMG.

[FIRE CHIEF]

Why would someone like Jay Wright leave one of the consistently best teams in the nation in Villanova go to some place like NC State? That's really, really dumb.

You thinking Villanova is a better job than NC State is really dumb.

[skurey]

I was going to post earlier that I didn't think OSU would lose during the regular season...whoops.

[FIRE CHIEF]

I was going to post earlier that I didn't think OSU would lose during the regular season...whoops.

They are the best team but they aren't unbeatable. I wouldn't be surprised if they lose at Purdue either. Purdue, Wisconsin and Ohio State are all teams I'd put in the elite 8 pretty confidently.

[skurey]

OSU - yeah
Wisconsin - depending on match ups
Purdue - No

[FIRE CHIEF]

OSU - yeah
Wisconsin - depending on match ups
Purdue - No

I think all three are better than any Big East team.

[skurey]

I think all three are better than any Big East team.

ok.

[hoegher]

They are the best team but they aren't unbeatable. I wouldn't be surprised if they lose at Purdue either. Purdue, Wisconsin and Ohio State are all teams I'd put in the elite 8 pretty confidently.

Nah. Bo Ryan is a good coach, but we always lose early in the NCAA Tournament.

[therunner12]

A&M really can't put teams away.

We need a shooter.

[FIRE CHIEF]

Nah. Bo Ryan is a good coach, but we always lose early in the NCAA Tournament.

You guys aren't championship caliber, but you'll win two or three games this year. That point guard is going to help you a lot. It's been a few years since Ryan was getting that kind of quality play there. Plus you don't have that bum Bohannon any more. I thought he singlehandedly made Wisconsin a worse team over the last four years.

[young money]

You guys aren't championship caliber, but you'll win two or three games this year. That point guard is going to help you a lot. It's been a few years since Ryan was getting that kind of quality play there. Plus you don't have that bum Bohannon any more. I thought he singlehandedly made Wisconsin a worse team over the last four years.
Bo Ryan always plays some bum. He's got Tim Jarmusz now, who is the worst division 1 player i've ever seen. He wasn't even any good in high school and in all honesty is a D3 level player. He's literally good at nothing except is 6'6''. He's also mad unathletic. All he does is move the ball when he's in the game, and get lit up defensively but yet he starts. I'm convinced he's got dirt on Bo Ryan because it's the only explanation.

As for Wisco, they'll beat teams when they rain triples like they did today. However, I don't buy them this year. Jordan Taylor is prone to chuck, it's just it pays off when he's on fire. Ohio State just played bad defense after they got a big lead and stopped closing out on shooters. Matta should have taken Kraft off of Taylor once he hit a few. Kraft dominated Taylor for a while until he adjusted to Kraft's pressure, then he punked him. Lighty should have gotten more time on Taylor and Lauderdale should have gotten some 2nd half burn.

[FIRE CHIEF]

Bo Ryan always plays some bum. He's got Tim Jarmusz now, who is the worst division 1 player i've ever seen. He wasn't even any good in high school and in all honesty is a D3 level player. He's literally good at nothing except is 6'6''. He's also mad unathletic. All he does is move the ball when he's in the game, and get lit up defensively but yet he starts. I'm convinced he's got dirt on Bo Ryan because it's the only explanation.

As for Wisco, they'll beat teams when they rain triples like they did today. However, I don't buy them this year. Jordan Taylor is prone to chuck, it's just it pays off when he's on fire. Ohio State just played bad defense after they got a big lead and stopped closing out on shooters. Matta should have taken Kraft off of Taylor once he hit a few. Kraft dominated Taylor for a while until he adjusted to Kraft's pressure, then he punked him. Lighty should have gotten more time on Taylor and Lauderdale should have gotten some 2nd half burn.

This year's Wisconsin team seems to shoot better than the last few. Or maybe I'm off. But to me they seem legit and I haven't thought that about them in quite a few years.

[KenA55]

Wisconsin's legit and so is Purdue, where the Buckeyes should take their second loss. I'd consider it an upset, albeit a minor one, if Ohio State wins there. And the Buckeyes should keep the #1 until and unless they do drop that second game...close loss in the Kohl Center > bigger loss at home to Texas for KU, not to mention letting this year's edition of the Wolverines take you to OT.

[KevinM]

not to mention letting this year's edition of the Wolverines take you to OT.

I'm a KU alum, but I tend to agree that OSU should remain #1 (with Texas arguably 2nd). That said, OSU only handled Michigan by 4 - not all that much more impressive. Thankfully this is all academic, and these ridiculous false transitive property type comparisons necessary for rankings don't determine the national champion.

[FIRE CHIEF]

I think OSU, Kansas, Texas and Duke are clearly the four best teams. It should pan out to give them the four number one seeds.

[Swoosh13]

Michigan State has to win at Value City on Tuesday to realistically open the door for Wisconsin or Purdue to win/share the title. Otherwise OSU will still win it outright

[FIRE CHIEF]

Nasir Robinson is the toughest dude in the country. I can't believe that ub from Nova tried to hit him. That lost them the game right there.

Nova is no better than last year. Theyt just rely too much on their guards and the guys cn't shhot.

[FIRE CHIEF]

Okay let's talk about the big game tomorrow. Xavier travels to Consol to take on Duquesne with first place on the line.

Four years ago Ron Everhart used Frenzy Ball to upset Xavier. Subbing five guys at a time every TV timeout and pressing the entire game. Xavier was the better team but totally unprpared. Two years ago Xavier went to Palumbo again and got trounced when we shot like 80% in the first half. Xavier has pounded the Dukes in Cincy the other years.

This game comes down to how well Xavier can hold up against pressure. Duquesne steals the ball at an incredible rate and forces the most turnovers in the country. Freshman guard TJ McConnell is ridiculously quick and gets over 3 steals a game. He is also an electric shooter and passer on offense. The best looking guard I've ever seen come into Duquesne. He's almost as gopod as his aunt suzie who is the best woman point guard ever most likely. Tu Holloway will really be tested in this game, as well as Lyons.

Duquesne has no answer for Frease and McLain and they'll probably get a ton of second chance points. Damiean Saunders has to stay out of foul toruble and he usually does. I'm disappointed in Dante Jackson as he showed signs of breaking out but really never has for X.

I'll go on record to predict Duquesne wins by 6. This is the biggest regular season game we have had in a long long time and I just hope we don't choke. This win could all but lock up an automatic bid if we take care of business down the stretch here.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

I'll go on record to predict Duquesne wins by 6. This is the biggest regular season game we have had in a long long time and I just hope we don't choke. This win could all but lock up an automatic bid if we take care of business down the stretch here.

Pomeroy has Duquesne by 7. The oddsmakers have Duquesne -5 or -5.5.

But as you noted, I think Xavier's size will help them a ton. Everyone knows Tu Holloway, but Lyons and Frease have impressed me from the limited amount of time I've watched Xavier. Don't know much about Duquesne; I just like Xavier.

Xavier by 5.

[Conigs]

If we can take care of the ball, we'll win.

Tu probably has like 4 at halftime and ends up with 25. That's how it usually goes.

[Conigs]

Duquesne should be winning by 20.

[FIRE CHIEF]

I thought we outplayed Xavier but we missed a million open shots. Xavier hit their's, especially Jackson, who I shouldn't have ragged apparently. He would frustrate me a lot because he has everything to be an NBA caliber SG but he has never put it together.

Arizona is on tonight. They have to take care of their rivals at ASU because next week they can all but wrap up the regular season title by beating Washington at home. Sean Miller has done in two years just what I predicted. By next year I called a final four, but didn't anticipate Williams being good enough to leave. But, I'll stick with it because they bring back everybody else and have a stacked class.

[FIRE CHIEF]

Okay guys. I kind of watched the WVU/Syracuse game. Anybody want to keep telling me how great the Big East is? WVU shouldn't be in the tournament and Syracuse is one and done. This league is the most overrated league I've probably ever seen.

[skurey]

Okay guys. I kind of watched the WVU/Syracuse game. Anybody want to keep telling me how great the Big East is? WVU shouldn't be in the tournament and Syracuse is one and done. This league is the most overrated league I've probably ever seen.

Big Ten football tho

WVU also beat that mighty Purdue team that's a lock on the Elite Eight.

Plus these teams are like tied for 5th and 10th or something in the conference.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Big Ten football tho

WVU also beat that mighty Purdue team that's a lock on the Elite Eight.

Plus these teams are like tied for 5th and 10th or something in the conference.

...

[phrisbee]

Well, Duke's gotta be happy tonight.

[Dyenimator]

I have 50:500 on Michigan NOT making the tournament. Hopefully we lose to I-L-L-N-I-T tomorrow.

[boltoncct&f]

Okay guys. I kind of watched the WVU/Syracuse game. Anybody want to keep telling me how great the Big East is? WVU shouldn't be in the tournament and Syracuse is one and done. This league is the most overrated league I've probably ever seen.

And come tournament time, they will get way to many teams in, while mediocre conferences;) just get their tournament winner, even though they have RPI's and SOS's to suggest otherwise.

UAB, Memphis, Southern Miss, and UTEP all could compete well in the Big East, just to toss some names out there from a mediocre conference which will get no respect come tournament time.

[skurey]

And come tournament time, they will get way to many teams in, while mediocre conferences;) just get their tournament winner, even though they have RPI's and SOS's to suggest otherwise.

UAB, Memphis, Southern Miss, and UTEP all could compete well in the Big East, just to toss some names out there from a mediocre conference which will get no respect come tournament time.

Big East has 9 in the Top 50 RPI with Cincy at 55 and Marquette at 57.

Of those teams above, not counting Cincy whose SOS is bad, the worst is Louisville at 34.

11 in Top 42 of Ken Pom. 12 in Top 60.

[boltoncct&f]

I think that is the point. The entire Big East seems to get lofty rankings that many would argue, therefore when they play each other, they keep their lofty RPI and SOS.

I'm not saying that the Big East is bad, I'm just in agreement with some people that some of the teams are given a bit too much credit (mostly for just being in the Big East), and I'm not sure when that will ever change.

[FTT]

I think that is the point. The entire Big East seems to get lofty rankings that many would argue, therefore when they play each other, they keep their lofty RPI and SOS.

I'm not saying that the Big East is bad, I'm just in agreement with some people that some of the teams are given a bit too much credit (mostly for just being in the Big East), and I'm not sure when that will ever change.

So how is the different frm the SEC in football?

[skurey]

I think that is the point. The entire Big East seems to get lofty rankings that many would argue, therefore when they play each other, they keep their lofty RPI and SOS.

I'm not saying that the Big East is bad, I'm just in agreement with some people that some of the teams are given a bit too much credit (mostly for just being in the Big East), and I'm not sure when that will ever change.

lol do you even know how RPI and SOS work?

[Eva N]

Okay guys. I kind of watched the WVU/Syracuse game. Anybody want to keep telling me how great the Big East is? WVU shouldn't be in the tournament and Syracuse is one and done. This league is the most overrated league I've probably ever seen.

Yeah, Syracuse has some serious holes... but I think they'll get a 4 or 5 seed, win two rounds, and give the #1 they play in the round of 16 a decent game. Come to think of it, that's about what they did last year, except they WERE the #1. Meh.

[boltoncct&f]

So how is the different frm the SEC in football?
Football is different since a billion teams make bowls. If there were a tournament, we would have a better idea of whether SEC is over ranked or not. Looking at bowl wins alone, you would have to say the lofty SEC football rankings are warranted. Now, if football had a tournament format, and the SEC teams continually get bounced out of the tournament early, then you could easily make that same argument.

I just think that by time one realizes a Big East basketball team is a fraud, the season is pretty much over, and they still find a way into the tournament over a much more deserving team.

lol do you even know how RPI and SOS work?

Yes. Do you even know what I am trying to say?

[skurey]

You don't get high RPI and SOS based on what the media and public perceive. This isn't the BCS where human polls are factored in.

So no you don't know how they work.

[boltoncct&f]

You don't get high RPI and SOS based on what the media and public perceive. This isn't the BCS where human polls are factored in.

So no you don't know how they work.

It's how you do with your schedule versus the teams you play and how they did with their schedule. You get more credit for an away win than you do a road win. I don't know the formula off the top of my head, but I do know the gist of it.

[skurey]

Exactly, so I have no idea what point you're trying to make anymore and how it can hold up to that argument.

Plus this was conveniently posted on a Syracuse board today:

There's been a lot of talk, especially since the BE expanded in 06, of how the BE is the best conference in basketball or whatever. Since we look set to break the record for most NCAA tourney teams, I thought I'd look at how we've done compared to seed expectation. I've used these numbers before; it's based on how many games each seed has won since the field expanded in 85. Here's the list, before we start.

1- 3.36
2- 2.43
3- 1.79
4- 1.52
5- 1.17
6- 1.26
7- .87
8-.67
9- .59
10- .63
11- .5
12- .48

I stopped at 12, we h aven't had a team seeded worse than 12th.

I'll go year by year.

2006: Had 8 teams make the tournament; expected to win 12.69 games, we won 11.
2007: Only 6 teams this year, expected to win 8, we won 7.
2008; 8 teams again; expected to win 11.04, we won 11.
2009: 7 teams, expected 16.18, won 17.
2010: 8 teams, expected to win 14.91, we won only 8.

Except for last year, the Big East seems to do exactly as well as they were seeded by the committee. But obviously it's the overrating bias by them.

[FTT]

http://www.collegerpi.com/rpifaq.html
What is the formula?
The basic formula is 25% team winning percentage (WP), 50% opponents' average winning percentage (OWP), and 25% opponents' opponents' average winning percentage (OOWP).
For the 2004-05 season, the formula was changed to give more weight to road wins vs home wins. A team's win total for RPI purposes is 1.4 * road wins + neutral site wins + 0.6 * home wins. A team's losses is calculated as 0.6 * road losses + neutral site losses + 1.4 * home losses.

For example, a team that is 4-0 at home and 2-7 on the road has a RPI record of 5.2 wins (1.4 * 2 + 0.6 * 4) and 4.2 losses (0.6 * 7). That means that even though it is 6-7, for RPI purposes, it is above .500 (5.2-4.2).

This "weighted" record is only used for the 25% of the formula that is each team's winning percentage. The regular team records are used to calculate OWP and OOWP.

so basically since all the BE teams did so good OOC this year they have high RPIs going into the conference games. they then feed off each others rpis like the SEC football teams feed of each others high ranking. this doesnt mean the BE is overrated. look at teams like Purdue, florida, xavier, and utah state which have 3 wins against a top 25 team between them.

[boltoncct&f]

So by playing each other, they improve their position.

In an average conference (with a handful of teams that will kill a teams RPI and SOS), a team could be far better then say the 4th or 5th Big East team, but they would barely get a look by the committee.

I'd continue to spar, but it's time to go run. Literally.

[Eva N]

Plus this was conveniently posted on a Syracuse board today:



Except for last year, the Big East seems to do exactly as well as they were seeded by the committee. But obviously it's the overrating bias by them.

Cool stats. I'm not sure where he's getting those "expected win" numbers from, though.

The way I read it... BE teams seeded 1-4 have under-performed their seeds (#1 seeds should win 4 games, #2 seeds 3 games, #3 and #4 seeds 2 games). BE teams seeded #5-6 have somewhat over-performed their "win one game" expectation. The #7-8 seeds have under-performed, and the #9-12 seeds have over-performed. A mixed bag.

[young money]

RPI basically tells me nothing about how good a team actually is. I went over this last year on the old dyestat thread with watchout too if anyone wants to dig that up. But it doesn't really matter how well a team performs against another good team. It too heavily weights who the teams you play against play against, which IMO is a retarded way to look at things. A team can lose every single game it plays against a good opponent and it's RPI can still go up, which is stupid.


And bolton, usually the teams that get screwed by RPI are the mid pack power conference teams, and the ones who usually benefit most are the top few schools from conferences like the MWC, CUSA, and MVC. You'll see schools from those conferences with a top 20 RPI and then look at their schedule and realize they played 1 top 25 team all year long. Then you'll see a mid pack power conference team with an RPI that's like 75.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

RPI basically tells me nothing about how good a team actually is. I went over this last year on the old dyestat thread with watchout too if anyone wants to dig that up. But it doesn't really matter how well a team performs against another good team. It too heavily weights who the teams you play against play against, which IMO is a retarded way to look at things. A team can lose every single game it plays against a good opponent and it's RPI can still go up, which is stupid.


Credit the ones who actually play real teams. What is more impressive, a loss to Duke by 10 or a win over Florida Gulf Coast by 30? Maybe neither, but there is not one clear cut choice.

I'm a fan of RPI because it's something objective. Everybody hates stats and numbers, but what else is there? People's opinions? How do we know who is right?

[FTT]

Uconn won at Texas, St. Johns beat duke, WVU beat Purdue, Georgetown beat memphis and Missouri, Pitt beat texas. the BE has a pretty solid resume of OOC wins

[skurey]

Cool stats. I'm not sure where he's getting those "expected win" numbers from, though.

The way I read it... BE teams seeded 1-4 have under-performed their seeds (#1 seeds should win 4 games, #2 seeds 3 games, #3 and #4 seeds 2 games). BE teams seeded #5-6 have somewhat over-performed their "win one game" expectation. The #7-8 seeds have under-performed, and the #9-12 seeds have over-performed. A mixed bag.

He calculated the number of wins by each seed since the tournament expanded.

[Donkeykongrunner]

So by playing each other, they improve their position.

In an average conference (with a handful of teams that will kill a teams RPI and SOS), a team could be far better then say the 4th or 5th Big East team, but they would barely get a look by the committee.

I'd continue to spar, but it's time to go run. Literally.

You always have been and will continue to be a homer.

Memphis' losses this year:

#4 Kansas (by 13 at home)
#9 Georgetown (17 at home)
Tennessee (by 20 away)
Southern Methodist (by 6 away)
Marshall (By 15 away)
Tulsa (By 3 at home)

2 tournament teams here, every loss ugly besides the kansas one to a tournament resume.

Now let's compare that to a team in the Big East (for ****s and giggles Marquette because they are both the team I root for and on the bubble in the big east currently 6-6)

Marquette's losses this year:

#1 Duke (by 5 neutral court)
Gonzaga (by 3 neutral court)
#10 Wisconsin (by 5 at home)
#18 Vanderbilt (by 1 away)
#4 Pitt (away by 8)
#16 Louisville (away by 1)
#7 Notre Dame (away by 5)
#12 Uconn (home by 8)
#14 Nova (away by 5)
# 9 Georgetown (away by 9)

Every team there is a tournament team besides Gonzaga.

Memphis' wins over probable tournament teams:

None.

Marquette wins over probable tournament teams:

West Virginia (By 5 at home)
#7 Notre Dame (By 22 at home)
#20 Syracuse (by 7 at home)




So where in this breakdown does your Memphis team deserve to be in over a bubble team (10th or 11th in the big east) like Marquette? Surely if they were far better than the 4th or 5th Big East team they would outshine a 6-6 Big East team?

[FIRE CHIEF]

Here is my beef with the process. People rely way too much on games that happened in November and December. They aren't relevant in March IMO. I just don't see how the WVU team that beat Purdue can still be given credit when they absolutely stink right now. They literally cannot score. Just watch a game and quit looking at stats and rankings. Watch them play and you would never consider them good.

The Big East has nice depth. But, the bottom is worse than any other power conference and the top is as weak as any other power conference. Does anybody honestly plan on picking a Big East team to win the championship? To even make the final four?

[the stogs]

Here is my beef with the process. People rely way too much on games that happened in November and December. They aren't relevant in March IMO. I just don't see how the WVU team that beat Purdue can still be given credit when they absolutely stink right now. They literally cannot score. Just watch a game and quit looking at stats and rankings. Watch them play and you would never consider them good.

The Big East has nice depth. But, the bottom is worse than any other power conference and the top is as weak as any other power conference. Does anybody honestly plan on picking a Big East team to win the championship? To even make the final four?
pitt maybe? but that's basically a sleeper pick and only for the final 4. i wouldnt be surprised if there were no big east teams in the elite 8

[FIRE CHIEF]

pitt maybe? but that's basically a sleeper pick and only for the final 4. i wouldnt be surprised if there were no big east teams in the elite 8

I actually think Notre Dame has the best shot at the final four because they have multiple guys who can make shots. But you are proving my point. The BE is solid, but when you consider it has 16 teams, 8 should easily go as 6 or 5 go from other power leagues a lot of the time. The league is full of teams who literally just cannot shoot. There's not much to analyze.

[skurey]

#1 in each conference

ACC - Duke: lost to St John's
Big 12 - Texas: lost to UConn and Pitt
SEC - Alabama: lost to Seton Hall
Pac 10 - Arizona: DNP Big East team
Big Ten - OSU: DNP Big East team

But yeah all those teams are clearly better than the top of the Big East:rolleyes:

[the stogs]

I actually think Notre Dame has the best shot at the final four because they have multiple guys who can make shots. But you are proving my point. The BE is solid, but when you consider it has 16 teams, 8 should easily go as 6 or 5 go from other power leagues a lot of the time. The league is full of teams who literally just cannot shoot. There's not much to analyze.
hey no argument here. as a syracuse fan i'm used to overratings

[FIRE CHIEF]

#1 in each conference

ACC - Duke: lost to St John's
Big 12 - Texas: lost to UConn and Pitt
SEC - Alabama: lost to Seton Hall
Pac 10 - Arizona: DNP Big East team
Big Ten - OSU: DNP Big East team

But yeah all those teams are clearly better than the top of the Big East:rolleyes:

Don't bother filling out a bracket if you think St. John's is better than Duke, Texas would lose to UConn again or Alabama is the best team in the SEC.

[FIRE CHIEF]

And if you look at Pomeroy he proves my point. No Big East teams in the top 4, Pitt is the only one in the top 12. Great depth, but very mediocre at the top.

[skurey]

Ok so to determine the best conference we must:

Sort by the top 2 and bottom 2 teams of each conference.

Ignore the wins over the top teams in other conferences.

Under no circumstance bring unbiased statistics into the conversation, as they are clearly biased.

Watch teams from the same conference play each other, because that's how to determine how good another conference is.

Got it.

[FIRE CHIEF]

Ok so to determine the best conference we must:

Sort by the top 2 and bottom 2 teams of each conference.

Ignore the wins over the top teams in other conferences.

Under no circumstance bring unbiased statistics into the conversation, as they are clearly biased.

Watch teams from the same conference play each other, because that's how to determine how good another conference is.

Got it.

You don't have to watch who they play. You just watch them play. A good team looks good against anybody. Is it that hard to understand? Maybe you don't get basketball well enough to see that Kentucky is better than basically every Big East team. Or Purdue or Wisconsin or Arizona or Washington. Not to mention Duke, Kansas, Texas and Ohio State.

The big East is full of mediocre teams with solid college players. There are few and far top talents in the league and in March talent usually shines through.

[FIRE CHIEF]

Here's an unbiased ranking for you to chew on skurey. Pomeroys has Kentucky ranked 9th and UConn ranked 21. You have 7 losses to 5 as an advantage to Connecticut. You have the Big East being stronger than the SEC as another advantage. You also have Connecticut killing them in Maui. How can an unbiased ranking possibly have Kentucky ranked 12 spots ahead of UConn? Probably because UConn STINKS. Watch a game or two and you'd agree.

[the stogs]

i mean, cuse is an awful road team and we beat uconn at home

[skurey]

No one is ever going to listen to you about the Big Ten after the **** you pulled all football season.

I've already stated before in this thread, Pitt is the best team in the Big East, and no they probably won't make the Final Four, they never do.

That doesn't mean a damn thing when comparing conferences. Was the ACC the best conference last year because Duke won it all? Was the Horizon League just as good as the ACC, Big Ten and Big East? No. You can't just sort by the crapshoot that is the NCAA tournament.

[the stogs]

lol samuel dont neg me because i'm being an unbiased commentator

[FIRE CHIEF]

No one is ever going to listen to you about the Big Ten after the **** you pulled all football season.

I've already stated before in this thread, Pitt is the best team in the Big East, and no they probably won't make the Final Four, they never do.

That doesn't mean a damn thing when comparing conferences. Was the ACC the best conference last year because Duke won it all? Was the Horizon League just as good as the ACC, Big Ten and Big East? No. You can't just sort by the crapshoot that is the NCAA tournament.

I'm not even trying to compare conferences! All I'm saying is that some Big East teams aren't that great when you compare them to teams in other leagues. I didn't say Kentucky is better than Connecticut because the SEC is better than the Big East. I said it because they are. Wisconsin is flat out better than Villanova, or Notre Dame, or West Virginia. Does that mean these teams will win 100% of the time? No. But, it means that they are better in any way you look at it beyond dumb stuff like the RPI.

[skurey]

Ok so you're arguing something completely unrelated and agree with me.

Thank you.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

I am only picking 2 out of the following for my final four: Texas, Kansas, Ohio State, and Duke.

It's March Madness. Not March The Best 4 Regular Season Teams Make the Final Four.

[FIRE CHIEF]

I am only picking 2 out of the following for my final four: Texas, Kansas, Ohio State, and Duke.

It's March Madness. Not March The Best 4 Regular Season Teams Make the Final Four.

Anybody who doesn't put the four 1 seeds in their final four doesn't want to win their bracket most years.

[the stogs]

there's a reason people do multiple brackets

[FTT]

You don't have to watch who they play. You just watch them play. A good team looks good against anybody. Is it that hard to understand? Maybe you don't get basketball well enough to see that Kentucky is better than basically every Big East team. Or Purdue or Wisconsin or Arizona or Washington. Not to mention Duke, Kansas, Texas and Ohio State.

The big East is full of mediocre teams with solid college players. There are few and far top talents in the league and in March talent usually shines through.

Or maybe u just keep raving about Kentucky and Ohio state because those r 2 teams u root for. Ur just as biased as everyone else

[Mr. Irrelevant]

I'm not even trying to compare conferences! All I'm saying is that some Big East teams aren't that great when you compare them to teams in other leagues. I didn't say Kentucky is better than Connecticut because the SEC is better than the Big East. I said it because they are. Wisconsin is flat out better than Villanova, or Notre Dame, or West Virginia. Does that mean these teams will win 100% of the time? No. But, it means that they are better in any way you look at it beyond dumb stuff like the RPI.

How can Wisconsin be better than a team they lost to on a neutral court (Notre Dame)? Notre Dame is 5x better than Wisco.

Wisconsin is always the biggest fraud in the country because they are such a good home team, so they beat Purdue and OSU and people start thinking they are the real team. No, on the road they lose to Penn St, MSU, and Illinois and beat Northwestern and Iowa (in OT). I bet either IU or Michigan beats them when they are on the road.

And this year I do agree there is a big drop off after the top 5 teams. But I bet a 3 or 4 seed makes the Final Four.

[FIRE CHIEF]

So I use my own bias and you guys say I am clueless. I use an objective ranking like Pomeroy and you say I'm wrong. Kentucky and Wisconsin are rated well ahead of Notre Dame in Pomeroy. I don't know what you want. Actually I do. You all want Kentucky to go one and done because you hate Calipari.

[Donkeykongrunner]

So I use my own bias and you guys say I am clueless. I use an objective ranking like Pomeroy and you say I'm wrong. Kentucky and Wisconsin are rated well ahead of Notre Dame in Pomeroy. I don't know what you want. Actually I do. You all want Kentucky to go one and done because you hate Calipari.


So the Big East has 9 of the top 28 teams in college basketball. Roughly a third. That's overrated?

[the stogs]

So the Big East has 9 of the top 28 teams in college basketball. Roughly a third. That's overrated?
christ did you even read what he said? great depth, mediocre up top

[FIRE CHIEF]

So the Big East has 9 of the top 28 teams in college basketball. Roughly a third. That's overrated?

In terms of depth...no. In terms of quality...yes.

[boltoncct&f]

You always have been and will continue to be a homer.

Memphis' losses this year:

#4 Kansas (by 13 at home)
#9 Georgetown (17 at home)
Tennessee (by 20 away)
Southern Methodist (by 6 away)
Marshall (By 15 away)
Tulsa (By 3 at home)

2 tournament teams here, every loss ugly besides the kansas one to a tournament resume.

Now let's compare that to a team in the Big East (for ****s and giggles Marquette because they are both the team I root for and on the bubble in the big east currently 6-6)

Marquette's losses this year:

#1 Duke (by 5 neutral court)
Gonzaga (by 3 neutral court)
#10 Wisconsin (by 5 at home)
#18 Vanderbilt (by 1 away)
#4 Pitt (away by 8)
#16 Louisville (away by 1)
#7 Notre Dame (away by 5)
#12 Uconn (home by 8)
#14 Nova (away by 5)
# 9 Georgetown (away by 9)

Every team there is a tournament team besides Gonzaga.

Memphis' wins over probable tournament teams:

None.

Marquette wins over probable tournament teams:

West Virginia (By 5 at home)
#7 Notre Dame (By 22 at home)
#20 Syracuse (by 7 at home)




So where in this breakdown does your Memphis team deserve to be in over a bubble team (10th or 11th in the big east) like Marquette? Surely if they were far better than the 4th or 5th Big East team they would outshine a 6-6 Big East team?
At what point did I start arguing Memphis not getting their just dues? I was just using CUSA as a conference that gets the shaft year after year. Half way through the season, CUSA was the only conference who did NOT have a team with a losing record. And they were not playing all cup cakes either. They have beaten ranked teams. And as it stands now, I think we only have one team who has a losing record, and it's barley a losing record. But you will see, CUSA will get one team. I'll be shocked if they get more.
So I use my own bias and you guys say I am clueless. I use an objective ranking like Pomeroy and you say I'm wrong. Kentucky and Wisconsin are rated well ahead of Notre Dame in Pomeroy. I don't know what you want. Actually I do. You all want Kentucky to go one and done because you hate Calipari.
No arguments here:D

[Conigs]

You want to find the good teams with all those number crunching computer wastes of time?

Run the numbers, same as before, EXCLUDING ALL home games. Only take the road and neutral floor games. That's the best indicator for march.

Pitt usually chokes in March, but is playing well on the road this year.
Kentucky is young, and likes to lose on the road a lot.
At least UConn won at Texas, which is beyond ridiculous.

Then there's Wisconsin. They wouldn't even make the NCAA tournament if they had to play all their games on the road. They are AWFUL.

[TeamOrange]

You want to find the good teams with all those number crunching computer wastes of time?

Run the numbers, same as before, EXCLUDING ALL home games. Only take the road and neutral floor games. That's the best indicator for march.

Pitt usually chokes in March, but is playing well on the road this year.
Kentucky is young, and likes to lose on the road a lot.
At least UConn won at Texas, which is beyond ridiculous.

Then there's Wisconsin. They wouldn't even make the NCAA tournament if they had to play all their games on the road. They are AWFUL.

Bo Ryan is a good coach, his team will win at least one game. Probably go to the sweet 16

[hoegher]

How can Wisconsin be better than a team they lost to on a neutral court (Notre Dame)? Notre Dame is 5x better than Wisco.

Well, screw you. That was what, a 4 point loss that Wisconsin was leading for most of the game?

[checks stats]

Damn, 7 points. Held the lead with 2 minutes to go. Close enough. I'd say they're pretty evenly matched.

Wisconsin is always the biggest fraud in the country because they are such a good home team.

Everyone has home court advantage. Not our fault we're just better at it than most teams.

Honestly, yes: that probably is a factor for Wisconsin's under-performance in March. I think a larger factor is the style of play we have. We aren't built for high scoring games or overcoming large deficits. So when we hit someone like Stephen Curry, we're sunk. Biggest fraud is pretty harsh, though.

All right, time for me to exit this thread until March.

[FIRE CHIEF]

If you want most overrated team year in and year out I'd pick Syracuse. They haven't beaten a team with a higher seed than them since they won the championship I believe.

[the stogs]

If you want most overrated team year in and year out I'd pick Syracuse. They haven't beaten a team with a higher seed than them since they won the championship I believe.
well they've also been seeded pretty high normally so they wouldnt have a chance. but they gotta beat those damn lower seeds. but i wouldnt say overrated as much as underachieve. altho in 06 they were a 5 seed and should have been an 8 or 9

[TeamOrange]

If you want most overrated team year in and year out I'd pick Syracuse. They haven't beaten a team with a higher seed than them since they won the championship I believe.

They have made it to the sweet 16 3 times I think

[skurey]

hahahahaha

hahahahahhaa

omg hahahahahahhaha

[Conigs]

Bo Ryan is a good coach, his team will win at least one game. Probably go to the sweet 16

If they even make it to the sweet sixteen, it will be because of a ridiculous seeding in the tournament. Like a 2 or 3. If they were seeded on the actual barometer of the team, they'd lose to an 11 seed almost every single time on opening night.

[TeamOrange]

If they even make it to the sweet sixteen, it will be because of a ridiculous seeding in the tournament. Like a 2 or 3. If they were seeded on the actual barometer of the team, they'd lose to an 11 seed almost every single time on opening night.

Meh probably but he has only lost in the first round once and makes it to the sweet 16 or later I think like half the times

[usnspecialist]

found this on espn, its rather interesting.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/23272/rating-the-conferences-from-1-to-32-5

Conference Computers Human Bonus Final Rating
Big East 51.7 20.4% 41.1
Big Ten 50.9 16.2% 42.7
Big 12 63.7 16.6% 53.1
ACC 78.7 7.6% 72.7
MWC 94.1 14.0% 80.9
Pac-10 86.4 4.4% 82.6
SEC 92.7 6.4% 86.8
C-USA 117.5 0.0% 117.5
A-10 123.4 0.7% 122.5
Colonial 139.1 0.0% 139.1
Horizon 141.4 0.0% 141.4
MVC 146.4 0.0% 146.4
West Coast 158.9 0.6% 158.0
WAC 159.6 0.5% 158.7
Ivy 173.6 0.0% 173.6
MAAC 192.6 0.0% 192.6
Summit 206.3 0.0% 206.3
MAC 207.8 0.0% 207.8
Big West 208.3 0.0% 208.3
Big South 208.9 0.0% 208.9
Southern 211.8 0.0% 211.8
A-Sun 212.2 0.0% 212.2
Northeast 218.0 0.0% 218.0
Big Sky 221.3 0.0% 221.3
Patriot 223.9 0.0% 223.9
Sun Belt 228.7 0.0% 228.7
A-East 230.9 0.0% 230.9
Ohio Valley 234.0 0.0% 234.0
Southland 248.3 0.0% 248.3
MEAC 278.2 0.0% 278.2
SWAC 306.7 0.0% 306.7
Great West 315.9 0.0% 315.9

explanation here.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/19380/ranking-the-conferences-1-32

[Conigs]

Meh probably but he has only lost in the first round once and makes it to the sweet 16 or later I think like half the times
Last five years in NCAAs.

2010: 4 seed. Barely beat Wofford. Lost to Cornell (by a thousand).
2009: 12 seed. Beat FSU in OT. Lost to Xavier.
2008: 3 seed. Beat Cal State Fullerton. Beat Kansas State. Lost to Davidson.
2007: 2 seed. Beat Texas A&M Community College (:D ). Lost to UNLV.
2006. 9 seed. Lost to Arizona.

In 05, they were a 6 seed, and took UNC to the wire in the Elite 8. Long time ago. Lot of struggles since then. 07 and 08 were ridiculous seedings.

[hoegher]

Last five years in NCAAs.

2010: 4 seed. Barely beat Wofford. Lost to Cornell (by a thousand).
2009: 12 seed. Beat FSU in OT. Lost to Xavier.
2008: 3 seed. Beat Cal State Fullerton. Beat Kansas State. Lost to Davidson.
2007: 2 seed. Beat Texas A&M Community College (:D ). Lost to UNLV.
2006. 9 seed. Lost to Arizona.

In 05, they were a 6 seed, and took UNC to the wire in the Elite 8. Long time ago. Lot of struggles since then. 07 and 08 were ridiculous seedings.

2007 and 2008 were not ridiculous seedings by any measure. In 2007 (2 seed), Wisconsin was ranked 3rd in the AP Poll at the end of the regular season (27-4), in 2008 (3 seed), Wisconsin won the Big Ten ranked 6th in the AP Poll at the end of the regular season (26-4).

We've struggled in March recently, true. But we've earned our seed every single time.

[Conigs]

Of course you've earned your seedings! You don't lose cause you don't play ANYONE.

The only real non conference road game you ever play is the ACC-Big 10 challenge every other year. Add a lackluster tournament in November every year (neutral court) and a slew of weak home games and there's your non conference with a loss. Maybe two.

Then you go to conference play, and win out at home. Beat the crappy teams on the road (sometimes). And lose to anyone worth anything on the road.

You come out with 6 losses looking on the surface like you're good. EVERY. SINGLE. YEAR.

The moment you run into a decent team from OOC, SEEYA.

Same goes to San Diego State and BYU this year. If either of those teams earn a seed at, or higher than 4 I'm going to lose a lot of respect for the seeding committee, who usually do a decent job. I already don't have any respect for the polls.

[therunner12]

Of course you've earned your seedings! You don't lose cause you don't play ANYONE.

The only real non conference road game you ever play is the ACC-Big 10 challenge every other year. Add a lackluster tournament in November every year (neutral court) and a slew of weak home games and there's your non conference with a loss. Maybe two.

Then you go to conference play, and win out at home. Beat the crappy teams on the road (sometimes). And lose to anyone worth anything on the road.

You come out with 6 losses looking on the surface like you're good. EVERY. SINGLE. YEAR.

The moment you run into a decent team from OOC, SEEYA.

Same goes to San Diego State and BYU this year. If either of those teams earn a seed at, or higher than 4 I'm going to lose a lot of respect for the seeding committee, who usually do a decent job. I already don't have any respect for the polls.

There really is no way BYU or SD State don't get a ranking above 4. I hope to God we get seeded to play BYU in the second round.

[Conigs]

Who is your team?

[hoegher]

Of course you've earned your seedings! You don't lose cause you don't play ANYONE.

The moment you run into a decent team from OOC, SEEYA.

We play Marquette every year, I believe.

2007: Beat #20 Marquette (road), beat #2 Pittsburgh
2008: Beat #9 Texas (road)

[Mr. Irrelevant]

At least Baylor can feel good about beating Wayland Baptist. I can't believe they are going to make the tournament. On paper they are so good, but man they can't put it together.

And luckily, Summers and Roe added a high point total to MSU (0 points on 1 shot). I honestly think Izzo was ****ing around this game. Just give Kebler a chance, trying to win at OSU is a waste of time. Summers is averaging like 3 points per game over his past 4. He will surprise a lot of people in the NIT.

[young money]

Baylor has no point guard. Their lead guard is a me first chucker who isn't that good. On paper they are a bunch of length and athleticism. Tough to beat actually good teams with a formula like that. They get their wins, but they are what they are.

[therunner12]

Who is your team?

Texas A&M

Baylor has no point guard. Their lead guard is a me first chucker who isn't that good. On paper they are a bunch of length and athleticism. Tough to beat actually good teams with a formula like that. They get their wins, but they are what they are.

When Jones and Perry work together, man they are good. Too bad they are two thugs with egos that won't let them do that. People don't realize how much Tweety gave to that team. He was the coach out on the court.

[Conigs]

Oh my. If I were Texas A&M and I got either of those two MWC schools, my eyes would light up like a Christmas tree. They play defense in the Big 12. That's a concept the MWC doesn't even know exists.

I mean, Jimmer will get his, but he'll get about half of his normal big game routine.

[Donkeykongrunner]

At what point did I start arguing Memphis not getting their just dues? I was just using CUSA as a conference that gets the shaft year after year. Half way through the season, CUSA was the only conference who did NOT have a team with a losing record. And they were not playing all cup cakes either. They have beaten ranked teams. And as it stands now, I think we only have one team who has a losing record, and it's barley a losing record. But you will see, CUSA will get one team. I'll be shocked if they get more.

No arguments here:D

Right here:


And come tournament time, they will get way to many teams in, while mediocre conferences;) just get their tournament winner, even though they have RPI's and SOS's to suggest otherwise.

UAB, Memphis, Southern Miss, and UTEP all could compete well in the Big East, just to toss some names out there from a mediocre conference which will get no respect come tournament time.



Any other questions?

[Donkeykongrunner]

In terms of depth...no. In terms of quality...yes.

Well I'd agree they don't have a number 1 seed amongst the group but they have plenty of teams capable of making an elite 8 or final 4. Whether or not that happens is a different story, though. It's not the same story every year, though. Two years ago there were 3 #1 BE teams and 4 of the 8 elite eight teams were BE.

St. Johns, Notre Dame, Syracuse, UConn, Pitt, Nova and Georgetown are all pretty capable of making deep tournament runs.

Too much of March depends on the match-ups you draw to say who is gonna make a run at it yet and who is hot coming into the tournament.

This year lacks real strong #1 seeds in general.

[boltoncct&f]

Any other questions?

Yes: Did you know that UAB, Memphis, Southern Miss, and UTEP are from CUSA? And don't answer "yes", because you would not have just posted that if you did know. And if you did know, then you are not following the argument very well, and your comprehension skills are low, so stay out of it if you can't keep up.

[Conigs]

UAB
OOC losses: Arizona State (not good), Georgia (not bad), Duke (expected)
OOC wins: Arkansas, VCU (neither are that nice)
SOS: 113

Memphis
OOC losses: Kansas, Georgetown, Tennessee
OOC wins: goose egg.
SOS: 123

Southern Miss:
OOC losses: Mississippi (not good), Colorado State (ouch)
OOC wins: California (doesn't help)
SOS: 131

UTEP:
OOC losses: Pacific (ouch), Georgia Tech (ouch), BYU (looks better than it should)
OOC wins: Michigan (NIT)
SOS: 160

Bottom line: one bid league.

[Donkeykongrunner]

Yes: Did you know that UAB, Memphis, Southern Miss, and UTEP are from CUSA? And don't answer "yes", because you would not have just posted that if you did know. And if you did know, then you are not following the argument very well, and your comprehension skills are low, so stay out of it if you can't keep up.

I didn't think i had to break down each team in CUSA resume to get you to understand that they don't deserve more than 1 bid. Conigs did quickly though to prove the point further.


Your team is bad this year.

Your conference is bad every year. You just have to deal with it.

[FIRE CHIEF]

You guys care way too much about what happened OOC.

[Donkeykongrunner]

You guys care way too much about what happened OOC.

How else do you compare other conferences?

If you didn't compare OOC games then each conference would deserve an equal amount of teams in the tourney unless you want to arbitrarily have "the eye test" as the only thing distinguishing conferences.

[FIRE CHIEF]

How else do you compare other conferences?

If you didn't compare OOC games then each conference would deserve an equal amount of teams in the tourney unless you want to arbitrarily have "the eye test" as the only thing distinguishing conferences.

You obviously have to look at it a little, but come on. Last year Texas was #1 in non conference then was terrible in conference. Was it because the Big 12 was great? No. It's because teams aren't the same in November and March. Saying that Notre Dame beat Wisconsin or something like that just doesn't matter to me.

Memphis for instance is a heck of a lot better now than they were in December. I watched them the other night and they are a legit team. They are actually running an offense, trying on defense. They were not then and that's why they got smoked.

[Conigs]

They might be a better team now, but most teams are. Texas last year was the exception. They lost complete chemistry and then fell apart.

But body of work matters. You can't just judge a team based upon them passing the eye test one night. Lots of teams look really, really good against awful teams. So it doesn't mean very much in the overall scale. The eye test matters more for major level bubble teams that play against good competition every week.

And so no one thinks I'm hating on the mid majors, I'm not impressed with most of the Big 10, either.

I've already berated Wisconsin plenty. Ohio State isn't that good. Certainly not number one team in the nation good. Michigan State scares me the most, but they might not even make it. Purdue would be final 4 quality team with Hummel, but now they'll go as far as Moore takes them, which right now is solid. Illinois is on their way out of the dance, and Northwestern, Michigan, and Penn State never really had a chance. Iowa sucks.

[FIRE CHIEF]

Who do you actually think is good Conigs? Like are there 10 teams you would even put in your top 10?

[Conigs]

1. Texas
2. Kansas
3. Pittsburgh
4. Duke
5. Georgetown
6. Ohio State
7. Notre Dame
8. Florida
9. Arizona
10. Purdue
11. Conneticut
12. Texas A&M
13. North Carolina
14. Villanova
15. Vanderbilt
16. Wisconsin

Pretty soft from 8 to 16, thus is the nature of this year's season.
I think BYU and SDSU are somewhere in the 17-25 range. Utah State isn't close to the top 25. Xavier and Temple are right about where I think they should be (in the AP poll), though I swear Xavier should be SO much worse cause I just don't believe how we keep ending up winning most of these games.

People are overrating the Big 10 and underrating the Big 12. Also, it's hard to not give teams some love for winning games (Wisconsin) even though they can't win anywhere but home.

[therunner12]

1. Texas
2. Kansas
3. Pittsburgh
4. Duke
5. Georgetown
6. Ohio State
7. Notre Dame
8. Florida
9. Arizona
10. Purdue
11. Conneticut
12. Texas A&M
13. North Carolina
14. Villanova
15. Vanderbilt
16. Wisconsin

Pretty soft from 8 to 16, thus is the nature of this year's season.
I think BYU and SDSU are somewhere in the 17-25 range. Utah State isn't close to the top 25. Xavier and Temple are right about where I think they should be (in the AP poll), though I swear Xavier should be SO much worse cause I just don't believe how we keep ending up winning most of these games.

People are overrating the Big 10 and underrating the Big 12. Also, it's hard to not give teams some love for winning games (Wisconsin) even though they can't win anywhere but home.

We (A&M) are awful away from home. I think we should be around 15.

[therunner12]

Saint Mary's.

[Conigs]

I'm a big fan of St. Mary's. Really like what they're doing out on the West Coast. Great run to the Sweet 16 last year, and could make another Aussie invasion into this year's as well.

[boltoncct&f]

UAB
OOC losses: Arizona State (not good), Georgia (not bad), Duke (expected)
OOC wins: Arkansas, VCU (neither are that nice)
SOS: 113

Memphis
OOC losses: Kansas, Georgetown, Tennessee
OOC wins: Miami, Gonzaga
SOS: 123

Southern Miss:
OOC losses: Mississippi (not good), Colorado State (ouch)
OOC wins: California (doesn't help)
SOS: 131

UTEP:
OOC losses: Pacific (ouch), Georgia Tech (ouch), BYU (looks better than it should)
OOC wins: Michigan (NIT)
SOS: 160

Bottom line: one bid league.
Look at the RPI's again. They are much higher than the SOS, because SOS does calculate a team's rank, especially in early season games. So if each of those teams you listed had won just one of those games, their SOS would be much higher. The RPI's are slowly showing that these CUSA teams are good, and do deserve multiple bids. The commentators for last night games directly addressed this issue and said that if the selection were to start today, that it would be wrong for at least 3 CUSA teams to not be in it.
I didn't think i had to break down each team in CUSA resume to get you to understand that they don't deserve more than 1 bid. Conigs did quickly though to prove the point further.


Your team is bad this year.

Your conference is bad every year. You just have to deal with it. No, it's not. We have had teams, other than Memphis, fare well in the Tournament. We have had (way to many) NIT bids, with those teams all going deep.

You obviously have to look at it a little, but come on. Last year Texas was #1 in non conference then was terrible in conference. Was it because the Big 12 was great? No. It's because teams aren't the same in November and March. Saying that Notre Dame beat Wisconsin or something like that just doesn't matter to me.

Memphis for instance is a heck of a lot better now than they were in December. I watched them the other night and they are a legit team. They are actually running an offense, trying on defense. They were not then and that's why they got smoked.

Memphis has top 10 talent, IMO, but can't shake the AAU mentality. That's because they pretty much rely on all freshmen, right now, and are playing like freshmen too. That being said they are slowly (painfully slow) getting it together, but still have not put a complete game together. I'd hope that happens before the end of the season, but who knows. Witherspoon came back last night, but does not look like his former self. If he can get back to full strength, we will finally have at least one upperclassman we can count on, other than transfer Charles Carmoche.

You just can't loose your three best players: Witherspoon(injury), Kendrick(gone), and Garcia(turned pro), shortly into the season and expect to play good ball.

[Dyenimator]

SDSU with another impressive, solid victory yesterday.

[FTT]

SDSU with another impressive, solid victory yesterday.

o yes, new mexico was a solid final four contender:p

[Dyenimator]

#42 on lolkenpom.

[Conigs]

Look at the RPI's again.

RPI means nothing to me. Xavier has an RPI of like, 19, which is pretty ridiculous to me that it's that high.

Utah State's RPI is also around that mark (probably lower now after their loss to Idaho). They are in no way deserving of an at large bid in my book. They didn't do ANY favors for themselves schedule wise. At some point, mid major teams need to learn how to effectively schedule for themselves.

As for adding Miami and Gonzaga... Miami is nowhere even listed on the S curve. Not even in bubble considerations. That's just another average C-USA type quality win. Gonzaga is on the bubble, but out right now. Maybe that helps if at larges come down to Memphis/Gonzaga, but they aren't looking that peachy right now.

The commentators for last night's UAB Memphis game were C-USA commentators! Of course they think 3 teams should get bids. They're about as dumb as the A10 guys. And that's tough to do!

[FTT]

#42 on lolkenpom.

O wow then that is impressive

[boltoncct&f]

We can agree to disagree on some of what you wrote, but I'll address these two.
At some point, mid major teams need to learn how to effectively schedule for themselves.

I can't speak for other teams, but Memphis has tried multiple times to schedule Duke to a home and home. Guess what? They won't do it. Why do you think that is? Is Memphis not good enough? Gonzaga backed out of our home and home deal just before the game last week, meaning that game is no more. Can't imagine why they backed out of it:rolleyes: Arizona did the same thing to us a few years back. Again, I wonder why?;) I would love to get a Kansas home and home going, but they also don't want to do it, though we always manage to meet in these pre season tournaments. Maybe they don't like how close we play them. I don't know.

So all we have left is Georgetown, and I'm not sure when that one will bite the dust.

So to what do you attribute us not being able to effectively schedule for ourselves?

I know the answer, and it's one you won't like. But let's here yours first.


The commentators for last night's UAB Memphis game were C-USA commentators! Of course they think 3 teams should get bids. They're about as dumb as the A10 guys. And that's tough to do!
Pete Gillen is far from dumb. He would bring up the CUSA RPI's as well.

[Conigs]

Pete Gillen was a far better coach than he is announcer. I have a lot of respect for the guy as he was the first of 5 straight excellent coaching choices at Xavier, but that doesn't mean he isn't dumb in this case.

Also, you just exemplified the problem with Memphis' scheduling. Mid majors (especially successful ones like Memphis) are not going to get the top level teams to come to their building. Georgetown is an exception, because John Thompson III would play a game on the moon against the Russian team- he just doesn't care.

You're not going to get high profile games anywhere other than neutral sites. So look for something with say, Ohio State in Louisville.

But when scheduling, do things that will help your resume over things that will MAKE your resume. Schedule projected NCAA to bubble teams for about half of the non conference. It's these beatable, not "unbeatable" type teams that will get you into the dance year after year, plus they make your team better. If you can schedule a lot of contrasting styles as well, then you make your team all around better.

Contrasting Xavier and Memphis' non conference schedules:
Xavier
Iowa* (transition year)
Seton Hall* (w/o Hazell- supposed to have been better)
Old Dominion* (NCAA team last year)
Wofford (NCAA team last year, could be again)
Butler (NCAA runner up last year)
Wake (NCAA team last year, struggling this year)
Gonzaga (10 straight NCAAs)
Florida (NCAA team)
Cincinnati (Crosstown Shootout)
Georgia (Dancing this year)

* Paradise Jam Tournament

Memphis
Miami (NIT)
LSU
Kansas (NCAA team)
Georgetown (NCAA team)
Tennessee
Western Kentucky (usually an NCAA team out of the Sun Belt)

See the difference? Early season tournament with quality, but not ridiculous teams, along with a slew of past, present, and future NCAA tournament teams. Some you win, some you lose, all make you better as the season progresses.

[boltoncct&f]

Pete Gillen was a far better coach than he is announcer. I have a lot of respect for the guy as he was the first of 5 straight excellent coaching choices at Xavier, but that doesn't mean he isn't dumb in this case.

Also, you just exemplified the problem with Memphis' scheduling. Mid majors (especially successful ones like Memphis) are not going to get the top level teams to come to their building. Georgetown is an exception, because John Thompson III would play a game on the moon against the Russian team- he just doesn't care.

You're not going to get high profile games anywhere other than neutral sites. So look for something with say, Ohio State in Louisville.

But when scheduling, do things that will help your resume over things that will MAKE your resume. Schedule projected NCAA to bubble teams for about half of the non conference. It's these beatable, not "unbeatable" type teams that will get you into the dance year after year, plus they make your team better. If you can schedule a lot of contrasting styles as well, then you make your team all around better.

Contrasting Xavier and Memphis' non conference schedules:
Xavier
Iowa* (transition year)
Seton Hall* (w/o Hazell- supposed to have been better)
Old Dominion* (NCAA team last year)
Wofford (NCAA team last year, could be again)
Butler (NCAA runner up last year)
Wake (NCAA team last year, struggling this year)
Gonzaga (10 straight NCAAs)
Florida (NCAA team)
Cincinnati (Crosstown Shootout)
Georgia (Dancing this year)

* Paradise Jam Tournament

Memphis
Miami (NIT)
LSU
Kansas (NCAA team)
Georgetown (NCAA team)
Tennessee
Western Kentucky (usually an NCAA team out of the Sun Belt)

See the difference? Early season tournament with quality, but not ridiculous teams, along with a slew of past, present, and future NCAA tournament teams. Some you win, some you lose, all make you better as the season progresses.
I see your point, but you have got to understand that we have explored many options, other than the teams I mentioned. I was just tossing out top teams that are too scared to play us, even if they are better than us. We had to schedule LSU and Miami last minute, and LSU refused to do a home and home, so we had to play in Tupelo???!!!??? I think Miami just figured that they would do a short term home and home thinking that they would be able to take advantage of Memphis rebuilding, yet beating a team of that calibre. It backfired on them, and my guess is there goes any other ACC teams that will want any.

What is one to do when nobody (even the fringe teams) wants to play you?

[TeamOrange]

One big problem for mid-majors and OCC is that the top teams don't want to schedule them because they are a mid-major. There is still some bias against mid-major teams even if they are good, so if you lose to them it hurts you more than if they were a major conference team. If that makes sense

[Eva N]

Also, you just exemplified the problem with Memphis' scheduling. Mid majors (especially successful ones like Memphis) are not going to get the top level teams to come to their building. Georgetown is an exception, because John Thompson III would play a game on the moon against the Russian team- he just doesn't care.

This is true, and completely opposite of his father's approach when he was coaching. Back then, Georgetown's first 10-11 games would be home contests against West Virginia Teachers College, St. Dominic's School of Art, etc...

[boltoncct&f]

One big problem for mid-majors and OCC is that the top teams don't want to schedule them because they are a mid-major. There is still some bias against mid-major teams even if they are good, so if you lose to them it hurts you more than if they were a major conference team. If that makes sense

It makes perfect sense. They are scared. I don't blame them for being scared to schedule those games. I just don't like that mid majors "weak schedules" are held against them year after year.

Memphis' RPI is on the rise game after game, and we are only playing CUSA teams. But in the end, if we are not to win the CUSA tournament, we will not be given the credit that should be given to us. The same goes for the other CUSA teams and other mid major conferences. This would never happen to an average Big East, ACC, SEC, or Big 10 team. Especially an average Big East team;)

[skurey]

It makes perfect sense. They are scared. I don't blame them for being scared to schedule those games. I just don't like that mid majors "weak schedules" are held against them year after year.

Memphis' RPI is on the rise game after game, and we are only playing CUSA teams. But in the end, if we are not to win the CUSA tournament, we will not be given the credit that should be given to us. The same goes for the other CUSA teams and other mid major conferences. This would never happen to an average Big East, ACC, SEC, or Big 10 team. Especially an average Big East team;)

You know why it would never happen? Because average Big East teams actually beat other teams that don't suck. Maybe Memphis and the rest of Conference We Suck A can learn a little thing or two from them.

[TeamOrange]

It makes perfect sense. They are scared. I don't blame them for being scared to schedule those games. I just don't like that mid majors "weak schedules" are held against them year after year.

Memphis' RPI is on the rise game after game, and we are only playing CUSA teams. But in the end, if we are not to win the CUSA tournament, we will not be given the credit that should be given to us. The same goes for the other CUSA teams and other mid major conferences. This would never happen to an average Big East, ACC, SEC, or Big 10 team. Especially an average Big East team;)

Less of being scared and more of it will just not benefit them as much as if they faced an equal major conference team, like Kansas State. Kansas State will hurt you less than Memphis and they are relatively equal

[boltoncct&f]

You know why it would never happen? Because average Big East teams actually beat other teams that don't suck. Maybe Memphis and the rest of Conference We Suck A can learn a little thing or two from them.

I think ranked West Virginia and Florida went down to some bottom of the barrel "We Suck A" CUSA teams;)

And outside of our two rebuilding years, which we should be done after this year, we have beaten most teams put in front of us. Ranked or not. Did you forget?


And further more, why is the Big East balking at the prospects of bringing in Memphis to join their conference? Let me dig for the answer one of the Big East guys gave us ......... thinking....... oh wait....... "we have enough basketball schools". What's he really trying to say?

Side Note: Yes, I know our football sucks, right now, but we got rid of that problem and are addressing it nicely. Give us another couple of years. That is not it why we are not in the Big East.

Less of being scared and more of it will just not benefit them as much as if they faced an equal major conference team, like Kansas State. Kansas State will hurt you less than Memphis and they are relatively equal

How's that?
Real Time RPI:
Memphis 26
Kansas State 32

[FIRE CHIEF]

1. Texas
2. Kansas
3. Pittsburgh
4. Duke
5. Georgetown
6. Ohio State
7. Notre Dame
8. Florida
9. Arizona
10. Purdue
11. Conneticut
12. Texas A&M
13. North Carolina
14. Villanova
15. Vanderbilt
16. Wisconsin

Pretty soft from 8 to 16, thus is the nature of this year's season.
I think BYU and SDSU are somewhere in the 17-25 range. Utah State isn't close to the top 25. Xavier and Temple are right about where I think they should be (in the AP poll), though I swear Xavier should be SO much worse cause I just don't believe how we keep ending up winning most of these games.

People are overrating the Big 10 and underrating the Big 12. Also, it's hard to not give teams some love for winning games (Wisconsin) even though they can't win anywhere but home.

I don't even know where to start. But this will be a long post and I hope it sparks discussion on more X's and O's than we beat they beat crap.

1. Ohio State-Sullinger and Buford are two lottery picks. Their inside outside game is the best in the country. Buford can score from anywhere. Lighty and Dioebler are probably the best 3rd and 4th options out there too. They can flat out kill you. They can switch between man and zone effectively. They can press or play back if they have to. Top to bottom there is nothing they can't do IMO.

2. Duke-Smith has broken out this year and become a go to guy. But, they also have Singler who is probably the most expereinced big game player in the country. Curry is weak, but as long as they don't ask him to do too much he's been fine. K can pick apart any defense and has proven it over the years. They have enough big bodies to contain opposing post guys. If they see a team with really quick guards that can iso some of their guys they could have some trouble. But, I think that's their only weakness.

3. Texas-Another team that mixes defenses well. I question their outside shooting consistency because the Turk is the lead guard and can't shoot. They have quality size on both ends. They are a real contender but sooner or later that Turk will kill them IMO.

4. Kansas-This team has always struggled against tight man defense and it appears to be the case again. Self's offense is too finesse to get off of sticky stuff. But, lucky for them too few teams are quality enough to give them problems.

5. Pitt-They rely too much on offensive rebounding to score. It will cost them. Book it.

6. Purdue-Well coached, play hard, lack talent of the top five but have done a great job of beating who they are supposed to beat over the years. If they are a 2 seed book them to the elite 8.

7. Kentucky-Probably the most talented team in the country. Have had some really bad luck losses honestly. They shoot the ball far better than they did last year although they don't have a great post scorer. Defensive lapses and hurrying too much will probably end their run. But, it will be deep.

8. North Carolina-Totally different team the last few weeks. The effort has returned and when Williams has a guard that can lead the fast break they are dynamite. Look at Lawson and Felton. Those are the guys who made their championship teams. The kid is a freshman so they won't win it all, but he's got the right guy now.

9. Wisconsin-Steady team that can really shoot better than they have in the past. Don't know if the stats back it up, but I feel like they have multiple players to create and hit shots this year and they have lacked that in the past. They are unathletic and will get smoked by solid guards sooner or later.

10. Washington-Possibly the third best team in the country behind Duke and OSU when they are clicking. They have unreal quality at all starting positions. Their biggest flaw is Romar. He always struggles to get his kids playing hard and has this year too. The Oregon games two weeks ago stand out. They flat out didn't try enough to win.

11. Notre Dame-Great balance. Great shooting. Can switch defenses. But, I don't think they are quick enough and while they have rebounded very well, almost surprisingly, I think somebody will crush them on the offensive boards deep in March.

12. Arizona-Best player and best coach in the counrty could get them to the sweet 16. But lack of experience and lack of quality behind Williams are big issues.

13. San Diego State-Better shooting team that they are given credit for. They also have nice length defensively. Their lead guard stinks though and it's tough to win if your PG can't score.

14. Georgetown-I really like the way they shoot and that's about it. Soft inside, the Princeton offense is built for inferior teams to compete with better teams and will get you in trouble sooner or later if final fours are what you want.

15. Missouri-Their pace always gets its way. I love teams that can always dictate pace against any opponent. I think they're a year away from being great, but they'll drive teams nuts in March.

16. George Mason-They are wrecking the CAA. They have fantastic guards and can run multiple defenses. Solid team. Defines sweet 16 caliber.

Florida is soft. The midget guard can't defend.

UConn can't shoot period.

Villanova's guards are check happy.

Vanderbilt is too slow.

Texas A&M isn't dynamic enough for me to take seriously.

[skurey]

I think ranked West Virginia and Florida went down to some bottom of the barrel "We Suck A" CUSA teams;)

And outside of our two rebuilding years, which we should be done after this year, we have beaten most teams put in front of us. Ranked or not. Did you forget?


And further more, why is the Big East balking at the prospects of bringing in Memphis to join their conference? Let me dig for the answer one of the Big East guys gave us ......... thinking....... oh wait....... "we have enough basketball schools". What's he really trying to say?


Check where WVU is in the conference.

Last wins by Memphis over Big East teams were Cincy and Seton Hall 3 years ago, congrats.

He's saying Memphis football is not even good enough for the Big East, what's that really say?

[FTT]

I see your point, but you have got to understand that we have explored many options, other than the teams I mentioned. I was just tossing out top teams that are too scared to play us, even if they are better than us. We had to schedule LSU and Miami last minute, and LSU refused to do a home and home, so we had to play in Tupelo???!!!??? I think Miami just figured that they would do a short term home and home thinking that they would be able to take advantage of Memphis rebuilding, yet beating a team of that calibre. It backfired on them, and my guess is there goes any other ACC teams that will want any.

What is one to do when nobody (even the fringe teams) wants to play you?

for starters dont loose to tulsa and marshall...

I don't even know where to start. But this will be a long post and I hope it sparks discussion on more X's and O's than we beat they beat crap.

1. Ohio State-Sullinger and Buford are two lottery picks. Their inside outside game is the best in the country. Buford can score from anywhere. Lighty and Dioebler are probably the best 3rd and 4th options out there too. They can flat out kill you. They can switch between man and zone effectively. They can press or play back if they have to. Top to bottom there is nothing they can't do IMO.

2. Duke-Smith has broken out this year and become a go to guy. But, they also have Singler who is probably the most expereinced big game player in the country. Curry is weak, but as long as they don't ask him to do too much he's been fine. K can pick apart any defense and has proven it over the years. They have enough big bodies to contain opposing post guys. If they see a team with really quick guards that can iso some of their guys they could have some trouble. But, I think that's their only weakness.

3. Texas-Another team that mixes defenses well. I question their outside shooting consistency because the Turk is the lead guard and can't shoot. They have quality size on both ends. They are a real contender but sooner or later that Turk will kill them IMO.

4. Kansas-This team has always struggled against tight man defense and it appears to be the case again. Self's offense is too finesse to get off of sticky stuff. But, lucky for them too few teams are quality enough to give them problems.

5. Pitt-They rely too much on offensive rebounding to score. It will cost them. Book it.

6. Purdue-Well coached, play hard, lack talent of the top five but have done a great job of beating who they are supposed to beat over the years. If they are a 2 seed book them to the elite 8.

7. Kentucky-Probably the most talented team in the country. Have had some really bad luck losses honestly. They shoot the ball far better than they did last year although they don't have a great post scorer. Defensive lapses and hurrying too much will probably end their run. But, it will be deep.

8. North Carolina-Totally different team the last few weeks. The effort has returned and when Williams has a guard that can lead the fast break they are dynamite. Look at Lawson and Felton. Those are the guys who made their championship teams. The kid is a freshman so they won't win it all, but he's got the right guy now.

9. Wisconsin-Steady team that can really shoot better than they have in the past. Don't know if the stats back it up, but I feel like they have multiple players to create and hit shots this year and they have lacked that in the past. They are unathletic and will get smoked by solid guards sooner or later.

10. Washington-Possibly the third best team in the country behind Duke and OSU when they are clicking. They have unreal quality at all starting positions. Their biggest flaw is Romar. He always struggles to get his kids playing hard and has this year too. The Oregon games two weeks ago stand out. They flat out didn't try enough to win.

11. Notre Dame-Great balance. Great shooting. Can switch defenses. But, I don't think they are quick enough and while they have rebounded very well, almost surprisingly, I think somebody will crush them on the offensive boards deep in March.

12. Arizona-Best player and best coach in the counrty could get them to the sweet 16. But lack of experience and lack of quality behind Williams are big issues.

13. San Diego State-Better shooting team that they are given credit for. They also have nice length defensively. Their lead guard stinks though and it's tough to win if your PG can't score.

14. Georgetown-I really like the way they shoot and that's about it. Soft inside, the Princeton offense is built for inferior teams to compete with better teams and will get you in trouble sooner or later if final fours are what you want.

15. Missouri-Their pace always gets its way. I love teams that can always dictate pace against any opponent. I think they're a year away from being great, but they'll drive teams nuts in March.

16. George Mason-They are wrecking the CAA. They have fantastic guards and can run multiple defenses. Solid team. Defines sweet 16 caliber.

Florida is soft. The midget guard can't defend.

UConn can't shoot period.

Villanova's guards are check happy.

Vanderbilt is too slow.

Texas A&M isn't dynamic enough for me to take seriously.

the fact that u have kentucky and washington in the top ten shows how truly biased u r. the big 10 is 10x more overrated then the BE. although i do agree florida is overrated. id say texas is the best team in the country right now.

and id say this is the play of the year
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBiR9UwAPSk

[FIRE CHIEF]

Oh for god sakes. Washington is better at every single position than Texas A&M. I have no bias towards them other than a bias with TALENT. Their upside is through the roof compared to A&M. They made the sweet 16 last year as an underachiever. They should go at least as far this year. Honestly if Washington makes the final 4 I wouldn't be at all surprised.

You guys are clueless. Stand back and leave this thread to people like me. Or at least people that agree with me, nobody is actually like me.

[Conigs]

You give SO much credit to teams that can't win anywhere but in their own building. It's unbelievable.

Are you giving your top 16 teams in terms of a poll? Cause that's what mine was. Or are those the 16 teams you think would make a sweet 16 right now (if you got to just choose your 16 favorites)? Big differences here. Cause NO ONE would put Kentucky in a top 16 poll right now. Unless you're high.

I like your George Mason call though. But that's about it.

[FIRE CHIEF]

You give SO much credit to teams that can't win anywhere but in their own building. It's unbelievable.

Are you giving your top 16 teams in terms of a poll? Cause that's what mine was. Or are those the 16 teams you think would make a sweet 16 right now (if you got to just choose your 16 favorites)? Big differences here. Cause NO ONE would put Kentucky in a top 16 poll right now. Unless you're high.

I like your George Mason call though. But that's about it.

That's a sweet 16. Not a poll. But please. If you seriously made a poll with Ohio State 6th you are on crack. They should still be #1 but no way in the world below 3.

[usnspecialist]

That's a sweet 16. Not a poll. But please. If you seriously made a poll with Ohio State 6th you are on crack. They should still be #1 but no way in the world below 3.

i put them at #2 behind texas, but definitely agree there is a clear top 3.

[FTT]

texas
kansas
OSU
Pitt
Duke
Notre dame
Wisconsin
UConn
Georgetown
Purdue
Villanova
Arizona
SDSU
UNC
Louisville
BYU
A&M
Syracuse
Florida
Missouri
Vanderbilt
Kentucky
George Mason
St. Johns
Washington

[FTT]

Oh for god sakes. Washington is better at every single position than Texas A&M. I have no bias towards them other than a bias with TALENT. Their upside is through the roof compared to A&M. They made the sweet 16 last year as an underachiever. They should go at least as far this year. Honestly if Washington makes the final 4 I wouldn't be at all surprised.

You guys are clueless. Stand back and leave this thread to people like me. Or at least people that agree with me, nobody is actually like me.

your arrogance is impressive

[Donkeykongrunner]

Is Kyrie gonna leave after this year after getting basically no real experience?

[Picc5455]

Is Kyrie gonna leave after this year after getting basically no real experience?

From the stuff I heard he will be able to play in the final game of the regular season against UNC and be available for the ACC tournament and the NCAA tournament. It's also being said that he will stick around another year to actually play a full season. All speculation though so I could be 100% wrong but this is what I've heard.

[Donkeykongrunner]

From the stuff I heard he will be able to play in the final game of the regular season against UNC and be available for the ACC tournament and the NCAA tournament. It's also being said that he will stick around another year to actually play a full season. All speculation though so I could be 100% wrong but this is what I've heard.

Most drafts have him in the top 3-4 some at #1.

This is a bit of a weak draft with no clear Derrick Rose or John Wall type.

[Picc5455]

Most drafts have him in the top 3-4 some at #1.

This is a bit of a weak draft with no clear Derrick Rose or John Wall type.

It all depends on what he wants to do. He's friends with Austin Rivers who is coming in next year and some think that will help him stick around for another season. As a Duke fan I hope he sticks around but who knows. My oldest brother was telling me all of this cause one of his buddies at work is really into college basketball message boards so the good lord only knows where he dug this stuff up.

[skurey]

I heard he would be able to play and there was a very small chance of injury again, but it would be career ending.

[FIRE CHIEF]

If I were him I'd coast right on into a top 5 pick.

[boltoncct&f]

Yeah, why not.

Our local radio station had Xavier Henry on, the other day, and one of the questions asked of him was, "now that we are over half way into the season, do you think staying an extra year might have helped better prepared you for the NBA? In short, he basically said he was a top 10 pick on just about every board, and that being the case, why wait to get that money. I can't say I blame him. You get to practice with NBA guys, whether you play or not, so your game has got to get better, regardless.

Now those fringe guys, that's a different story.

oh...and.....
for starters dont loose to tulsa and marshall...
I agree, but remember, we are mostly freshmen, and we played awful in both of those games. We will probably not get ranked for the rest of the season, due to those two games alone. That being said, Pastner finally manned up to the team, benched some guys, and started one of our scrubs just to prove a point (scrubs always seem to out hustle the starters on just about every team). We beat Gonzaga, Once top 20 UCF, and a very good UAB team. Pastner is still currently starting that scrub too:o Ahhh.... superstitions.

[therunner12]

Oh for god sakes. Washington is better at every single position than Texas A&M. I have no bias towards them other than a bias with TALENT. Their upside is through the roof compared to A&M. They made the sweet 16 last year as an underachiever. They should go at least as far this year. Honestly if Washington makes the final 4 I wouldn't be at all surprised.

You guys are clueless. Stand back and leave this thread to people like me. Or at least people that agree with me, nobody is actually like me.

Yay for beating Washington.

You say that are one of the best teams in the country when they are on? Well they are rarely on...that usually causes some trouble. They have lost to MSU, Stanford, WSU, Oregon State, and Oregon (the last three in a consecutive games). What happened there?

Now that I look at it, the only good wins they have is against Arizona (at home) and at UCLA.

[FIRE CHIEF]

Washington will be fine. They just don't play hard all the time. When they have to, they usually do.

Utah State will beat St. Mary's tonight. That's my upset of the day. I'll take Oklahoma State over Texas A&M too. Washington over Arizona wouldn't surprise me at all either. Arizona didn't match up with them at all the first time around.

[the stogs]

iona vs liberty bracketbuster game today. i really like iona if we can win the conference tourney and make nc's. we have the parts to maybe put on a mini run, good point guard and a power conference caliber big man and good shooters

[therunner12]

Washington will be fine. They just don't play hard all the time. When they have to, they usually do.

Utah State will beat St. Mary's tonight. That's my upset of the day. I'll take Oklahoma State over Texas A&M too. Washington over Arizona wouldn't surprise me at all either. Arizona didn't match up with them at all the first time around.

We'll see, they need to play pretty hard this month. I bet they win the Pac-10 tournament though.

I'll be surprised if we win today. We blew them out here though, it wasn't even close. If we can get back to playing like that we'll be fine.

[mclovin]

Purdue players being drunken idiots 36 hrs before their biggest game of the year.

[skurey]

Purdue players being drunken idiots 36 hrs before their biggest game of the year.

What do they have to worry? They're already a lock for the Elite Eight!

[FIRE CHIEF]

Purdue players being drunken idiots 36 hrs before their biggest game of the year.

Good to see they are staying loose. I think they'll win easily tomorrow. Double digits.

[BigBo]

Inform me on St. Johns, and hair gel, Chief.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Good to see they are staying loose. I think they'll win easily tomorrow. Double digits.

OSU isn't a terrible road team, though. I'll take OSU by double digits. Still not sold on Purdue's depth, even though I think Johnson is the best player in the Big Ten.

Also, St. John's just locked themselves in the tourney. And DePaul isn't that bad either.

[skurey]

That terrible WVU team dominated Notre Dame all game.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Sweet 16 conference breakdown:
Big East - 16

[FIRE CHIEF]

St. John's has a lot of seniors and they press the entire game. They have a bunch of street ballers and won't run good enough half court stuff to go very far in the tournament. Lavin is a glorified AAU coach. He didn't work at UCLA because his teams played like a bunch of streetballers and that will kill them this year.

[young money]

I like St. Johns against undisciplined teams or teams with weak PG play that can be sucked into running up and down with them. They're real athletic and can get after it at times. It really will come down to who they play in the tourney obviously.

[therunner12]

Upset alert.

EDIT: 6 points in 2 seconds.

EDIT2: This is the worst basketball I've ever seen.

EDIT3: Why did Hamilton shoot that three?

EDIT4: All of Nebraska's big men are fatties.

EDIT5: tOSU back at #1. I really hope Nebraska doesn't make the NCAA tournament.

[boltoncct&f]

Very weird day, for sure.

UNC/Boston College are in a heated race on who can shoot worse. Boston College is winning that race, currently. This is awful!

[FIRE CHIEF]

I like St. Johns against undisciplined teams or teams with weak PG play that can be sucked into running up and down with them. They're real athletic and can get after it at times. It really will come down to who they play in the tourney obviously.

Generally speaking I think the guard play in the Big East is pretty mediocre. That has benefitted them a lot during their conference season. I kind of agree that a smart team will give them a lot of problems.

Also Pitt didn't dominate the offensive glass and you see what happened to them. Clean up their misses and they really struggle to score.

[skurey]

Syracuse going to lose to Rutgers

Can't expect anything else from the worst team in D1

[therunner12]

Syracuse going to lose to Rutgers

Can't expect anything else from the worst team in D1

I mean, they are...

[TeamOrange]

Cuse needs to stop shaving points

[TeamOrange]

What exactly has Arizona done to earn a 13 ranking? They have been blown out by the only 2 ranked teams they have played

[skurey]

What exactly has Arizona done to earn a 13 ranking? They have been blown out by the only 2 ranked teams they have played

Oh please don't do this.

[therunner12]

What exactly has Arizona done to earn a 13 ranking? They have been blown out by the only 2 ranked teams they have played

Not losing for a month does you some good when the Big East is beating up on each other and the Big 12 is having a bad year.

[FTT]

What exactly has Arizona done to earn a 13 ranking? They have been blown out by the only 2 ranked teams they have played

ibFC tells us they have the best coach and player in the country

[TeamOrange]

Washington is terrible, they have missed way too many open shots/fast breaks. And Arizona doesn't want to win the way they are turning it over

[therunner12]

Washington is terrible, they have missed way too many open shots/fast breaks. And Arizona doesn't want to win the way they are turning it over

These are FC's two favorite teams!!!

[KenA55]

In about 7 hours there should be just one single-loss team left standing. Should be fun to see what the polls look like this week.

[FIRE CHIEF]

I feel like this is a different world when I read this thread. After the game last night pretty much everybody in the studio raved about how well both Arizona and Washington played. Talked about how even if the PAC 10 is down these two teams look good. My friend texted me and said he's be surprised if both those teams weren't in the sweet 16. My dad was thrilled for Miller, he should be locking up coach of the year here pretty soon. Then I come to tracktalk and you guys somehow find a way to rip this game. Nevermind your great St. Mary's team who is absolute trash, or all your Big East teams that won in OT against the bottom feeders, or Kentucky who won by 31, oh ya you guys think they stink too.

Here's some advice. Just come here and ask me questions. Let me tell you what's going on. You guys have no clue. Who the heck doesn't think Derrick Williams is the best player in the country? Who doesn't think Sullinger is the best player in the big Ten? I guess guys around here do. This is also the forum that considers DePaul good. I got news for you., DePaul is one of the worst teams in Big East history. They are low major caliber.

[therunner12]

I have a question for you FC.

Why are all of the Nebraska players so fat?

[skurey]

OSU will win comfortably

[FIRE CHIEF]

I have a question for you FC.

Why are all of the Nebraska players so fat?

The coach probably emphasizes a lot of high calorie diets to get his guys big. Lance Jeter has always been a big dude, even back to when he was in 9th or 10th grade. He's got to go about 225 and that's pretty big for a PG.

I just got home from church and don't worry. I said some prayers for you guys. Maybe God will help you realize Kentucky is a top 8 team if your own two eyes cannot.

[Donkeykongrunner]

The coach probably emphasizes a lot of high calorie diets to get his guys big. Lance Jeter has always been a big dude, even back to when he was in 9th or 10th grade. He's got to go about 225 and that's pretty big for a PG.

I just got home from church and don't worry. I said some prayers for you guys. Maybe God will help you realize Kentucky is a top 8 team if your own two eyes cannot.

Kentucky is 3-3 in their last 6 games... A top 8 team shouldn't lose to florida miss and vanderbilt. Kentucky hasn't done anything to earn a top 15 let alone a top 8 ranking. Talent-wise - yeah they are there. But they haven't put it together in some meaningful games.

Washington is hurting without Pondexter but can be real scary. I think a big slow team like Wisconsin might kill them though.

I haven't seen Arizona enough to comment cause I have no idea how good the team or Williams is but they haven't beat anyone impressive besides just barely knocking off Washington at home.

[young money]

the problem is no one here sees pac-10 games frequently but sees big east games all the time. that leads a lot of people to assume that the mid pack big east teams are better than the mid pack pac-10 teams because they see those big east teams compete with anyone in the big east because there are no great teams. I'm not saying Arizona and Washington are great teams, but they're better than given credit for. Everyone here is like "they haven't even beat anybody" because they've never even seen UCLA play this season and assume they suck in comparison to a school like Villanova or something.

[FTT]

my new top 5:
OSU
Arizona
Kentucky
Washington
Duquense

anyone who thinks otherwise probably doesnt even know what color a basketball is

[Dyenimator]

Kentucky is 3-3 in their last 6 games... A top 8 team shouldn't lose to florida miss and vanderbilt. Kentucky hasn't done anything to earn a top 15 let alone a top 8 ranking. Talent-wise - yeah they are there. But they haven't put it together in some meaningful games.


Huh? They were underdogs in the Florida and Vandy games, aka. expected to lose. They won AT Louisville, clobbered ND, and beat Warshington.

[FIRE CHIEF]

my new top 5:
OSU
Arizona
Kentucky
Washington
Duquense

anyone who thinks otherwise probably doesnt even know what color a basketball is

Anybody who doesn't think Ohio State and Duke are the two best teams really doesn't have a clue. And this is after I picked Ohio State to lose by 10 today and after they will lose by 10 today. Purdue whacking them at home doesn't take away the fact that Ohio State is still the best team and that Purdue is an easy top 8 team.

[FTT]

Anybody who doesn't think Ohio State and Duke are the two best teams really doesn't have a clue. And this is after I picked Ohio State to lose by 10 today and after they will lose by 10 today. Purdue whacking them at home doesn't take away the fact that Ohio State is still the best team and that Purdue is an easy top 8 team.

i think purdue is ranked right where they should be without hummel. Ohio state deff deserves a one seed. but based on who theyve beaten, if it comes down to duke and say pitt for the last one seed i think pitt has better wins and deserves the one seed

[TeamOrange]

Moore is winning this game by himself, really impressive performance

[FIRE CHIEF]

i think purdue is ranked right where they should be without hummel. Ohio state deff deserves a one seed. but based on who theyve beaten, if it comes down to duke and say pitt for the last one seed i think pitt has better wins and deserves the one seed

It's not going to come down to that. Ohio State has already locked up a 1 seed unless they end up with 4 losses, and that is doubtful. Duke is in the same boat. The last two spots are going to be between BYU/SDSU, Texas/Kansas and Pitt.

[TeamOrange]

Moore: 7-10 shooting threes
rest of team: 0-10

[FTT]

It's not going to come down to that. Ohio State has already locked up a 1 seed unless they end up with 4 losses, and that is doubtful. Duke is in the same boat. The last two spots are going to be between BYU/SDSU, Texas/Kansas and Pitt.

im gonna say Duke looses at UNC and the 1 seeds r OSU, texas, kansas and pitt. although either texas or kansas is gonna end up with a loss in the B12 tourney. i dont think BYU or SDSU deserve higher than 3s

[Picc5455]

im gonna say Duke looses at UNC and the 1 seeds r OSU, texas, kansas and pitt. although either texas or kansas is gonna end up with a loss in the B12 tourney. i dont think BYU or SDSU deserve higher than 3s

I think Duke wins at UNC especially if the rumors are true and Irving is back in the line up for that game.

[Fantasticate]

**** Ohio State. Great game Boilers.

[Picc5455]

**** Ohio State. Great game Boilers.

Must spread. Damn straight my man.

[FIRE CHIEF]

im gonna say Duke looses at UNC and the 1 seeds r OSU, texas, kansas and pitt. although either texas or kansas is gonna end up with a loss in the B12 tourney. i dont think BYU or SDSU deserve higher than 3s

If either BYU or SDSU wins out they have a real case. That means they would have beaten each other two more times plus UNLV or New Mexico again in the tournament. I actually think BYU was playing better a month ago than they are now and that SDSU is looking better than ever at this point. But, for either to get the one seed they'd have to win out and hope for an upset or two.

Pitt is definitely going to lose again if not twice more. Really think they'll play their way out of consideration. Kansas still has to play at Missouri and then Texas in the conference tournament. Texas peaked a few weeks ago. They're good but not the best team in the country. I don't expect them to get back in top form again.

What I'm basically saying is that for Duke or OSU not to get a 1 seed a lot is going to have to happen.

[skurey]

Good job Purdue.

[disgruntled]

I feel like this is a different world when I read this thread. After the game last night pretty much everybody in the studio raved about how well both Arizona and Washington played. Talked about how even if the PAC 10 is down these two teams look good. My friend texted me and said he's be surprised if both those teams weren't in the sweet 16. My dad was thrilled for Miller, he should be locking up coach of the year here pretty soon. Then I come to tracktalk and you guys somehow find a way to rip this game. Nevermind your great St. Mary's team who is absolute trash, or all your Big East teams that won in OT against the bottom feeders, or Kentucky who won by 31, oh ya you guys think they stink too.

Here's some advice. Just come here and ask me questions. Let me tell you what's going on. You guys have no clue. Who the heck doesn't think Derrick Williams is the best player in the country? Who doesn't think Sullinger is the best player in the big Ten? I guess guys around here do. This is also the forum that considers DePaul good. I got news for you., DePaul is one of the worst teams in Big East history. They are low major caliber.


this board is lost without the pac10 bias of watchout

[young money]

this board is lost without the pac10 bias of watchout
only because certain posters on this board seem to subliminally root for/get attached to schools that posters on here have ties too. A bunch of people on dyestat started rooting for Missouri because jenuine or w/e went there.

watchout was one of the biggest idiots there was when it came to basketball. He said and argued for so many retarded things when he posted.

[FIRE CHIEF]

only because certain posters on this board seem to subliminally root for/get attached to schools that posters on here have ties too. A bunch of people on dyestat started rooting for Missouri because jenuine or w/e went there.

watchout was one of the biggest idiots there was when it came to basketball. He said and argued for so many retarded things when he posted.

Watchout was okay sometimes and sometimes had no clue. He's way ahead of Mr. Irrelevant. He seriously just says stuff to get me mad I think. Because nobody can be as dumb as he is about basketball. Just read through this thread and look at some of the stuff he has said. It's an outrage!

[Dyenimator]

Woah, wait a second here. The only reason I like Missouri is they play that style and can enforce it on anyone. This year they're a marginally good team, but have a good shot of winning 2 games based on their draw.

[FIRE CHIEF]

Missouri is like Tennessee with consistency. Mostly because their coach is a stable individual and not a maniac driven by boosting his own self image in the media.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Watchout was okay sometimes and sometimes had no clue. He's way ahead of Mr. Irrelevant. He seriously just says stuff to get me mad I think. Because nobody can be as dumb as he is about basketball. Just read through this thread and look at some of the stuff he has said. It's an outrage!

Hahaha but to be fair, the Big Ten has been disappointing this year. Illinois with 10 losses? Minnesota 6 and 8 in the Big Ten? MSU 15-11? Those 3 teams are so average, which is why I say things like only 2 teams will advance to the second round. All I need is one upset, either Wisconsin or Purdue. I like my chances.

I think only OSU advances to the sweet 16 from the Big Ten. Purdue still doesn't have the depth to make a serious run. If JJ gets in foul trouble, the game is over.

EDIT: And I'll take MSU over Purdue next weekend. I think IU has a real shot at them, but won't have enough to pull it off.

[Swoosh13]

I think only OSU advances to the sweet 16 from the Big Ten. Purdue still doesn't have the depth to make a serious run. If JJ gets in foul trouble, the game is over.


Well, we are 27 games into the season, if that's a legit concern then surely you can point me to a game where he had to sit due to foul trouble

[skurey]

Swoosh with the woooooooosh

[Swoosh13]

Hahaha but to be fair, the Big Ten has been disappointing this year. Illinois with 10 losses? Minnesota 6 and 8 in the Big Ten? MSU 15-11? Those 3 teams are so average, which is why I say things like only 2 teams will advance to the second round. All I need is one upset, either Wisconsin or Purdue. I like my chances.

I think only OSU advances to the sweet 16 from the Big Ten. Purdue still doesn't have the depth to make a serious run. If JJ gets in foul trouble, the game is over.

EDIT: And I'll take MSU over Purdue next weekend. I think IU has a real shot at them, but won't have enough to pull it off.

You like your chances of Wiscy or Purdue losing to a 14 seed?

[skurey]

Swoosh getting mad

[FIRE CHIEF]

Hahaha but to be fair, the Big Ten has been disappointing this year. Illinois with 10 losses? Minnesota 6 and 8 in the Big Ten? MSU 15-11? Those 3 teams are so average, which is why I say things like only 2 teams will advance to the second round. All I need is one upset, either Wisconsin or Purdue. I like my chances.

I think only OSU advances to the sweet 16 from the Big Ten. Purdue still doesn't have the depth to make a serious run. If JJ gets in foul trouble, the game is over.

EDIT: And I'll take MSU over Purdue next weekend. I think IU has a real shot at them, but won't have enough to pull it off.

So you like your chances of a 14 or 15 seed upsetting Wisconsin or Purdue? You didn't have the balls to bet me back then so I assume you don't now. But $1,000 says three Big Ten teams are in the final 32. You say the most ridiculous things ever.

The reason the Big Ten has been so disappointing is because Iowa and Indiana and Michigan have improved through the season and aren't pushovers like DePaul, Providence and South Florida have been.

[FIRE CHIEF]

You know, I'm great at spotting trolls. But I cannot figure out if Mr. Irrelevant is a troll or if he really is that ridiculous. Normal people don't like their chances of a 14 seed upsetting a 3 seed. I'll give you credit, you have me worked up. Congrats on that because it's not easy to do. But seriously, I hope that is what you're trying to do. There is no way you can mean what you say.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

The reason the Big Ten has been so disappointing is because Iowa and Indiana and Michigan have improved through the season and aren't pushovers like DePaul, Providence and South Florida have been.

Those teams all go from sucking in out of conference to being "decent" teams. Why? Yeah they can get a little better, but all teams do. Awful Big Ten teams aren't the only teams getting better. They seem like they get better because the Big Ten is just not that good. You would think Iowa State is awful with 1 Big 12 win. But they beat Iowa, and would beat them every time. It's because the Big 12 is better than the Big Ten. They play better teams, so they only get 1 win.

Am I really that ridiculous? Haha maybe I am. I'm not trying to piss anyone off. I'm trying to save people's brackets.

[DonnieDarko]

The reason the Big Ten has been so disappointing is because Iowa and Indiana and Michigan have improved through the season and aren't pushovers .........

and penn state gets some lunchy upsets and will be out in the first round of the big ten tourny.

[DonnieDarko]

Those teams all go from sucking in out of conference to being "decent" teams. Why? Yeah they can get a little better, but all teams do. Awful Big Ten teams aren't the only teams getting better. They seem like they get better because the Big Ten is just not that good. You would think Iowa State is awful with 1 Big 12 win. But they beat Iowa, and would beat them every time. It's because the Big 12 is better than the Big Ten. They play better teams, so they only get 1 win.

Am I really that ridiculous? Haha maybe I am. I'm not trying to piss anyone off. I'm trying to save people's brackets.

The big 10 did win the big 10 vs acc challenge this yr

[therunner12]

Big 12 v. Big 10:

Texas 11-1 23-4
Kansas 10-2 25-2
Texas A&M 8-4 21-5
Missouri 7-5 21-6
Kansas State 6-6 18-9
Baylor 6-6 17-9
Nebraska 6-6 18-8
Colorado 5-7 16-11
Oklahoma State 4-8 16-10
Oklahoma 4-8 12-14
Texas Tech 4-8 12-15
Iowa State 1-11 14-13

Ohio State 12-2 25-2
Purdue 11-3 22-5
Wisconsin 10-4 20-6
Illinois 7-7 17-10
Michigan State 7-7 15-11
Michigan 7-8 17-11
Penn State 7-8 14-12
Minnesota 6-8 17-9
Northwestern 6-9 16-10
Indiana 3-11 12-15
Iowa 3-12 10-17

Texas v. Ohio State
Kansas v. Purdue
Texas A&M v. Wisconsin
Missouri v. Illinois
K. State v. Michigan State
Baylor v. Michigan
Nebraska v. Penn State
Colorado v. Minnesota
Oklahoma State v. Northwestern
Oklahoma V. Indiana
Texas Tech v. Iowa

What are the picks guys?

[Mr. Irrelevant]

The big 10 did win the big 10 vs acc challenge this yr

Yeah and they are better than the ACC. Pretty easily. But most people thought they would be the best. They aren't anywhere close. I overexaggerate how bad they are, but that doesn't change the fact they aren't that good. The upper A-10 teams can hang with the majority of the Big Ten (not OSU) if it was played on a neutral court.

[young money]

Yeah and they are better than the ACC. Pretty easily. But most people thought they would be the best. They aren't anywhere close. I overexaggerate how bad they are, but that doesn't change the fact they aren't that good. The upper A-10 teams can hang with the majority of the Big Ten (not OSU) if it was played on a neutral court.
the upper A-10 teams could hang with the majority of big east teams on a neutral court. what does that prove?

[skurey]

the upper A-10 teams could hang with the majority of big east teams on a neutral court. what does that prove?

Except for the fact that Xavier lost by 20 to Cincy.

[FIRE CHIEF]

Temple, Xavier, Duquesne and Richmond have hung with some decent teams out of conference. From a variety of different conferences. I don't see how that means anything.

[young money]

Except for the fact that Xavier lost by 20 to Cincy.
obvious baiting citing a rivalry game.

[skurey]

Exactly, imagine if it wasn't a rivalry! 40+

[Mr. Irrelevant]

I guess I was getting at the bubble team selection. Richmond better make it over Illinois and Minnesota. Maybe not MSU though. MSU at least plays some teams. If Illinois played MSU's schedule they would be .500.

And Cincy beat Dayton 68 to 34. Cincy isn't amazing, but they deserve the bids over Big Ten garbage.

[usnspecialist]

Woah, wait a second here. The only reason I like Missouri is they play that style and can enforce it on anyone. This year they're a marginally good team, but have a good shot of winning 2 games based on their draw.

i love 40 minutes of hell.

[FIRE CHIEF]

I guess I was getting at the bubble team selection. Richmond better make it over Illinois and Minnesota. Maybe not MSU though. MSU at least plays some teams. If Illinois played MSU's schedule they would be .500.

And Cincy beat Dayton 68 to 34. Cincy isn't amazing, but they deserve the bids over Big Ten garbage.

If you like teams that don't defend and don't rebound then Richmond is right up your ally.

[FIRE CHIEF]

UCLA is improved a lot through the season. I'm not sure they're good enough to win a game in the tournament, but I've got them on the radar at least. They do all the Howland things. Hard double downs in the post, once in a while zone defense to trip you up. They aren't an elite defensive rebounding team yet and for Howland to have success he does need that. Their guard play is also a little shaky and they have trouble in their sets with all kinds of stuff. It's gotta be frustrating for Howland but he's got these guys moving in the right direction. They should be back to a legit top 16 or 8 team next year.

[young money]

UCLA is improved a lot through the season. I'm not sure they're good enough to win a game in the tournament, but I've got them on the radar at least. They do all the Howland things. Hard double downs in the post, once in a while zone defense to trip you up. They aren't an elite defensive rebounding team yet and for Howland to have success he does need that. Their guard play is also a little shaky and they have trouble in their sets with all kinds of stuff. It's gotta be frustrating for Howland but he's got these guys moving in the right direction. They should be back to a legit top 16 or 8 team next year.I think they'll win a game if they don't play a team with great guard play. Obviously UCLA's guards are their biggest weakness, but I like their talent at the other positions. I'm a big Honeycutt fan and Nelson can really be a good instigator type. Josh Smith is hugeeeee too.

[FIRE CHIEF]

I think they'll win a game if they don't play a team with great guard play. Obviously UCLA's guards are their biggest weakness, but I like their talent at the other positions. I'm a big Honeycutt fan and Nelson can really be a good instigator type. Josh Smith is hugeeeee too.

I don't like their guards enough to pick them against most of the teams they would end up playing in the first round. They do seem like they do a pretty good job of dictating pace. Cal has tried to get this game moving but UCLA is doing a great job slowing it down by using the zone or pulling it back. It's really what has brought them back into the game after a slow start. Another team that would be in and out of the top 25 if they were actually on TV.

[FIRE CHIEF]

This Gutierrez kid is why I don't think UCLA would do much in the tournament. He has totally dominated this game basically with just his speed. The UCLA guards are skilled, but really slow.

EDIT: Gutierrez keeps attacking Smith with the 4 fouls and he is quick enough. Now Smith just fouled out.

When UCLA tries to expose Sanders-Fryson with his 4 fouls Zeek Jones isn't quick enough to do anything. These are two really well coached teams. UCLA is young and Cal looks like they're injury riddled and lack outside shooting.

[skurey]

That bounce!

[Michael Johnson]

Everyone but Duke loses in one weekend, Duke back to number 1, hell yeah

and Kyrie Irving is hoping to return very soon, if he's 100% then this is gonna be a scary team now that Smith has improved so much. I'd feel bad for Tyler Thornton though if he loses all his playing time to Irving, he's played great for a freshman who was supposed to be a backup to him

[skurey]

Big game tonight in the greatest conference to ever exist, but when isn't there a big game?

Nova by 8.

[FTT]

St. Johns #25!!!!!1!1!1!!

[the stogs]

thundo

[Mr. Irrelevant]

BYU with 2 first place votes! I laughed at Harvard and Belmont in the "other receiving votes".

I still think BYU and SDSU have no shot at getting 1 seeds. Both teams have a better OOC resume than OSU though :o