No Merritt in 2012

[runningchoc]

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/trackandfield/news/story?id=5702412

[kingcoe]

Looks like LaShawn has more hurdles to jump over than David Oliver if he is going to get into Daegu and then London (ok, not really but his hurdles look tougher).

The IOC says no Olympics but the arbitration panel says the IOC is wrong so I imagine he'll be fighting that one AND since his suspension goes past the 2011 US Champs the rules will need to be changed in regards to him competing at those championships in order to use his wild card to Daegu . . .

He's no where near out of the woods but it looks like the trees have been trimmed a bit.

[xsprinterx]

What a shame. I was and still is a big fan of LaShawn. Basically says the same the thing but some more literature: http://www.universalsports.com/blogs/blog=blockheadblog/postid=496652.html#a+riding+doping+appeal+merritt+ioc

[xcrunna]

http://3wiresports.com/2010/10/18/lashawn-merritts-fascinating-legal-drama/
"As part of the case, a 7-Eleven clerk testified that she sold Merritt the male enhancement product ExtenZe on a number of occasions. The stuff that’s in ExtenZe is what he tested positive for. Again, though, that’s not the news. Merritt is, by all accounts, a first-rate young man. He didn’t intend to cheat. He made a really bad choice. Enough said."
- You would think he would have been thinking long and hard before using Extenze.
tag: sorry

Seriously, though, it's pretty interesting that even though the committee seems to believe Merritt, they are still going through with a hefty ban. Shelly Ann Frasor had a similar scenario with OxyContin for a tooth thing. Brings up an interesting rules vs. discretion debate, to which the doping authorities are clearly favoring rules.

[Equinox2100]

http://3wiresports.com/2010/10/18/lashawn-merritts-fascinating-legal-drama/
"As part of the case, a 7-Eleven clerk testified that she sold Merritt the male enhancement product ExtenZe on a number of occasions. The stuff that’s in ExtenZe is what he tested positive for. Again, though, that’s not the news. Merritt is, by all accounts, a first-rate young man. He didn’t intend to cheat. He made a really bad choice. Enough said."
- You would think he would have been thinking long and hard before using Extenze.
tag: sorry

Seriously, though, it's pretty interesting that even though the committee seems to believe Merritt, they are still going through with a hefty ban. Shelly Ann Frasor had a similar scenario with OxyContin for a tooth thing. Brings up an interesting rules vs. discretion debate, to which the doping authorities are clearly favoring rules.

QFE. Personally, I think they should give him a slap-on-the-wrist type thing. Like banned for first 3 meets next year or something. So that when that time rolls around, he'll know not to do it again. Not this.

And I'd bet a hefty sum that he's allowed to run 2012

[TeamOrange]

I have worked for CVS and have no idea how someone can remember someone buying a product. This seems like complete BS

[HappyJack]

If you can buy a product over the counter without a prescription it should not be a doping violation. Some of these rules are just crazy. He could smoke a carton of cigarettes and drink a gallon of Jack Daniels a day and that's ok, but take a pill to get your wanker ready and your banned. WTF, I'll bet the old farts who make and enforce these rules are all on drugs themselves.

[orthostice]

http://3wiresports.com/2010/10/18/lashawn-merritts-fascinating-legal-drama/
"As part of the case, a 7-Eleven clerk testified that she sold Merritt the male enhancement product ExtenZe on a number of occasions. The stuff that’s in ExtenZe is what he tested positive for. Again, though, that’s not the news. Merritt is, by all accounts, a first-rate young man. He didn’t intend to cheat. He made a really bad choice. Enough said."
...
Seriously, though, it's pretty interesting that even though the committee seems to believe Merritt, they are still going through with a hefty ban. Shelly Ann Frasor had a similar scenario with OxyContin for a tooth thing. Brings up an interesting rules vs. discretion debate, to which the doping authorities are clearly favoring rules. [/COLOR]

I, too, think the 'crucial testimony from HS dropout 7-11 clerk' thing sounds ridiculous. As does the "but he's not that type of player" ****e.

The big difference between Merritt and Fraser is that DHEA is a performance-enhancing substance, while oxycodone will leave you in a nice puddle on your couch, or under a bridge, or in an alley or something.

[xcrunna]

I, too, think the 'crucial testimony from HS dropout 7-11 clerk' thing sounds ridiculous. As does the "but he's not that type of player" ****e.

The big difference between Merritt and Fraser is that DHEA is a performance-enhancing substance, while oxycodone will leave you in a nice puddle on your couch, or under a bridge, or in an alley or something.
The second point I see your point, though I think that WADA/USADA should do a lot better job of separating illegal substances(OxyCodone, Marijuana) from performance enhancers if they're going to test them at all. Separate the two categories and punish accordingly.

The one counter to the first point is that LaShawn Merritt might not be that typical customer at 7-11 you forget. In his hometown or training base, he's probably covered/celebrated/lauded generously by the media and municipality(town parades, feature articles, event etc.) After he won a gold medal, more so. In podunk, USA no one would recognize him, but if he came to your store where he's some sort of local celebrity buying fistfuls of male enhancement pills and condoms you might remember that. That being said, it is obviously not a deal-breaker or truly legitimate court evidence. I still kind of have the "who makes this stuff up?" feeling in my head for a guy who would come out and freely admit to taking Extenze and then potentially coercea 7-11 clerk into verifying that all well having a minimal shot at leniency.

[Zat0pek]

DHEA is a performance-enhancing substance

The research on this trends toward finding no statistically significant improvement gained from DHEA. A number of substances on the banned list are of questionable performance enhancement but are included out of an abundance of caution. I'm fine with that.

My experience is that if he's taking this, there's also a very good chance he's on the hard stuff as well. Like McGuire with the androstenedione (which was over the counter at the time and also of questionable benefit) then later fessing up to using steroids.

The over-the-counter stuff is usually just a smokescreen by these guys. Unfortunately, it works because most people are stupid enough to believe that GNC crap like that actually works.

Sucks to get banned for something that probably doesn't even help, though.

[xcrunna]

My experience is that if he's taking this, there's also a very good chance he's on the hard stuff as well. Like McGuire with the androstenedione (which was over the counter at the time and also of questionable benefit) then later fessing up to using steroids.

The over-the-counter stuff is usually just a smokescreen by these guys. Unfortunately, it works because most people are stupid enough to believe that GNC crap like that actually works.

I am suspicious of this logic. McGwire used a substance that was not banned in baseball. He carelessly left it on his locker, and had it not been for that one brave journalist who broke the silly "rules of the clubhouse" it never would have been a story. Still, of course, he was never disciplined by baseball and it was only after his hearings that his name was disgraced. Merritt tested positive repeatedly for a substance that WAS banned, and now faces punishment and disgrace. It's a huge difference and thus a questionable inference to say that McGwire using andro AND steriods logically means Merritt is using DHEA AND synthetic testosterone. He might be, but I don't think him testing positive for DHEA should change an assessment of that much at all.

It reminds me of Alminova testing positive for Pseudophedrine(not a masking agent, but illegal) earlier in the year. She very well may be doping, but I'd bet she uses something that a) works much better (EPO/blood doping) and b) isn't obviously detectable. Say you were on EPO, and you believe you can elude getting caught. How does taking Sudafed help you? It probably doesn't work and it will get you busted. When you get busted, the people who think you are doping get even more firepower and your chance of getting caught for your "real" substance of choice remains the exact same and maybe higher as they can test you more frequently.

[Zat0pek]

I am suspicious of this logic. McGwire used a substance that was not banned in baseball. He carelessly left it on his locker, and had it not been for that one brave journalist who broke the silly "rules of the clubhouse" it never would have been a story. Still, of course, he was never disciplined by baseball and it was only after his hearings that his name was disgraced. Merritt tested positive repeatedly for a substance that WAS banned, and now faces punishment and disgrace. It's a huge difference and thus a questionable inference to say that McGwire using andro AND steriods logically means Merritt is using DHEA AND synthetic testosterone. He might be, but I don't think him testing positive for DHEA should change an assessment of that much at all.

It reminds me of Alminova testing positive for Pseudophedrine(not a masking agent, but illegal) earlier in the year. She very well may be doping, but I'd bet she uses something that a) works much better (EPO/blood doping) and b) isn't obviously detectable. Say you were on EPO, and you believe you can elude getting caught. How does taking Sudafed help you? It probably doesn't work and it will get you busted. When you get busted, the people who think you are doping get even more firepower and your chance of getting caught for your "real" substance of choice remains the exact same and maybe higher as they can test you more frequently.

Notice that nowhere in my original post did I discuss logic. That's because my post wasn't about logic, it was about "my experience", meaning things I have experienced or observed, and you can read into that whatever you want.

Things that are observed or experienced may or may not be logical but they are most definitely real and true. I cited McGuire because his was an easily identifiable, publicly known example.

And I respectfully suggest that if you believe for one moment that McGuire "accidentally" or "carelessly" left andro in plain view in his locker and that it was a "brave" journalist who broke the "story," you have been seriously misled.

That ain't how the game is played. Not at all.

[xcrunna]

Notice that nowhere in my original post did I discuss logic. That's because my post wasn't about logic, it was about "my experience", meaning things I have experienced or observed, and you can read into that whatever you want.

Things that are observed or experienced may or may not be logical but they are most definitely real and true. I cited McGuire because his was an easily identifiable, publicly known example.

And if you believe for one moment that McGuire "accidentally" or "carelessly" left andro in plain view in his locker and that it was a "brave" journalist who broke the "story", I have some prime swampland to sell you.

That ain't how the game is played. Not at all.
I'll preface this by saying I think you're a great poster, but I think we might always have our disagreements on drugs.
Whether you intended to or not, you basically said that "where there's smoke there's fire" from your experience. Myself and others will assert a sort of logic (or pattern) to that unless you clarified and said, for example, my experience from following a professional cricket players or something. On this board, we're assuming your "experience" refers to comparable cases, which can help us draw conclusions or form opinions. As stated before, I believe your example of McGwire is incommensurate because it involves displaying and using a non-banned substance in a sport without drug testing, while Merritt's includes privately using a banned substance in a sport with drug testing that will make his use public. Whatever, we can disagree on the semantics of 'logic' versus 'experience'. You can imply that you can generalize or contribute to the understanding of Merritt's case with tales from that type of experience even if the fundamentals IMO are completely different. I'd disagree.

As for McGwire, I'm not sure if you really believe that leaving andro in view of reporters is the move of a careful man, but I'd disagree(hence, careless). Also, the AP journalist who brought this up against a public that didn't want to know and a corps of reporters who ignored it or downplayed it exhibited some courage in my view. Actually asking McGwire about andro, doing some research on the supplement and letting the public know was an admirable and unpopular move at the time. I don't know where you're attack on this is coming from. Was there something sinister for this journalist(wanting fame/attention/payouts)? Was McGwire yelling "hey look, I definitely am taking steroids!" after every home run? Hindsight is 20/20 of course, but I'm unsure of your angle here.

[Zat0pek]

I'll preface this by saying I think you're a great poster, but I think we might always have our disagreements on drugs.
Whether you intended to or not, you basically said that "where there's smoke there's fire" from your experience. Myself and others will assert a sort of logic (or pattern) to that unless you clarified and said, for example, my experience from following a professional cricket players or something. On this board, we're assuming your "experience" refers to comparable cases, which can help us draw conclusions or form opinions. As stated before, I believe your example of McGwire is incommensurate because it involves displaying and using a non-banned substance in a sport without drug testing, while Merritt's includes privately using a banned substance in a sport with drug testing that will make his use public. Whatever, we can disagree on the semantics of 'logic' versus 'experience'. You can imply that you can generalize or contribute to the understanding of Merritt's case with tales from that type of experience even if the fundamentals IMO are completely different. I'd disagree.

As for McGwire, I'm not sure if you really believe that leaving andro in view of reporters is the move of a careful man, but I'd disagree(hence, careless). Also, the AP journalist who brought this up against a public that didn't want to know and a corps of reporters who ignored it or downplayed it exhibited some courage in my view. Actually asking McGwire about andro, doing some research on the supplement and letting the public know was an admirable and unpopular move at the time. I don't know where you're attack on this is coming from. Was there something sinister for this journalist(wanting fame/attention/payouts)? Was McGwire yelling "hey look, I definitely am taking steroids!" after every home run? Hindsight is 20/20 of course, but I'm unsure of your angle here.

You misunderstood my post. Let me be more direct.

A big piece of the PED game is plausible deniability. Not for the test; you're screwed with that if you get careless and throw a positive.

The plausible deniability is for the public. It's all PR, baby.

My take: McGuire and his handlers (MLB, agents, coaches, sponsors, etc.) wanted the andro found, and made damn sure it was. Why? Because the whispers were already becoming a roar at that point about his Popeye forearms and 1,782 foot low-orbit blasts.

Andro was over the counter, and legal. Most average sports fans are so ignorant and uninformed they actually believe that something they could buy at Wal-Mart, GNC or Walgreens could actually produce such results. In the minds of such folks, andro provides a plausible explanation for The McGuire Freak Show. Thus, the andro is used to quell the whispers. Sure, there was an uproar from it for a while, but everybody was becoming wildly suspicious and in the minds of the public, andro would only be a misdemeanor compared to the felony of steroids. It's a simple PR calculation: Offer up the misdemeanor to explain away the felony. Everybody wins.

Sponsors, MLB (remember, this was post-strike and baseball was at about the lowest ebb its ever been at in this country; MLB needed the home run race between McGuire and Sosa to save the game, and they made sure it happened) and everybody else who stood to profit every time McGuire went yard needed plausible deniability. "Oh, so THAT was it! It was only andro! See, we TOLD you Mark wasn't doing steroids. Now, we'll slap his hands for doing the andro and call him a bad boy and he'll apologize and promise never to use it again, and in 72 hours everyone will have forgiven him and be cheering him even louder because he's so repentant."

But it's all a ruse. A carefully orchestrated example of how professional athletes (and politicians and entertainers) use the media to craft their public image. Because here's the deal: McGuire knew he would never test positive. MLB would make sure of that. But he and especially MLB needed cover to quell the whispers about steroids. So they offered up andro as the alternative explanation, something everybody could relate to because it was over the counter.

And for a lot of people, it worked. They accepted that explanation and were convinced he was clean, that it had been "just" andro.

That is, it worked until a few people started talking.

Then Congress had a few questions. They wanted to have a chat with Jose and Mark and a few others. But Mark had already put on his little soft shoe dance for the public. So when he showed up in Congress (suddenly looking about 50 pounds lighter, by the way) he was painted in a corner. He'd run his scam and now had been flushed out. So he cried like a little girl and wouldn't answer their questions.

Then some more time passed. Barry became bigger news. With time on his side and a new steroid-gulping, Paul Bunyon-esque figure knocking Mark off the seasonal HR record, he now belonged to history. And he really wanted to be involved with baseball again. St. Louis still loved him. But there was this little matter of his disastrous appearance before Congress. So, he finally fessed up, everybody shrugged like it was old news . . . and he went back the ballpark.

In the world of PEDs, you can believe very, very little of what you see. It's a world that operates on its own sick rationalizations and faux logic that is foreign to the vast majority of people on the outside looking in at that world. There's always a wizard or two behind the curtain creating an illusion for those looking in so they don't see the reality. In the world of PEDs, what you see is often nothing but a carefully crafted mirage.

Bringing this back to Merritt, my point was, and is, that once you pay your admission price to the Old Country PED Buffet, most guys don't eat just one thing. Most PED users take multiple substances (e.g., Marion was using steroids, HGH and EPO) and that includes over the counter stuff. I'm sure McGuire was using andro in addition to the hard stuff. Again, in my experience, if a guy will use one banned substance there's a very, very high likelihood he's using several others. I'd say that number approaches 98%+. So if Merritt was using DHEA, I'd bet a few paychecks that the hard stuff's in there somewhere, too.

Unfortunately, I know way more about this crap than I wish I did.

[xcrunna]

Interesting take. I'm not sure I buy it, just because I think the steroid rumblings and suspicions were more muted and isolated then we all like to remember. McGwire was so beloved that I think he could have continued on with his charade without the andro sideshow. Recall that Canseco's book did not come out until 2005, and the Balco Bonds Grand Jury testimony was in December 2003 (and leaked later). That was also the year of baseball's first year of steroid testing (though it was supposed to be anonymous). 2005 was the year that Congress intervened. I'm not sure the public was as "on" to McGwire as we think. I know McGwire had a lot of spotlight on him, but there must have been dozens of guys including stars like Mo Vaughn, Roger Clemens, Sammy Sosa, Luis Gonzalez, Rafael Palmeiro, and Alex Rodriguez who did steroids, but didn't throw out the andro as a front. Had the Canseco/Bonds things not happened and baseball was able of continuing to turn a blind eye who knows if these guys could have been able to skate free.
This read is amusing in retrospect (look at those fawning sportswriters and players): http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/hoberman/mcgwire.htm
So if Merritt was using DHEA, I'd bet a few paychecks that the hard stuff's in there somewhere, too.

It's Extenze we're talking about....tag: sorry again

Again, seriously, though Merritt has no assurances that he won't test positive for the real stuff and he does fact costly punishment for any front like this unlike McGwire. The idea of using DHEA and an Extenze excuse as a front seems like reckless planning if not moronic. Before this DHEA test, Merritt was not under much scrutiny as a "roid" guy. Certainly not as much as Tyson Gay, Usain Bolt or anybody in the 100. If he retired after the 2009 World Championships because he was paranoid of being caught or outed, he would have had two gold medals, an excellent career, and a history of negative tests( good enough for most of the public). Doesn't make sense to start with a "front" get banned for two years and potentially the Olympics (probably a career ender), so as to provide a front against the real thing which he had never test positive for, or had been considered overly suspect. Doesn't add up for me. It might add up for McGwire, as your theory could be right.

[Zat0pek]

Doesn't make sense to start with a "front" get banned for two years and potentially the Olympics (probably a career ender), so as to provide a front against the real thing which he had never test positive for, or had been considered overly suspect. Doesn't add up for me. It might add up for McGwire, as your theory could be right.

This is the part that most people can't get past. They apply logic to PEDs. PED use doesn't conform to our logic. A lot of human behavior defies logic. If logic governed human behavior, all we'd have to do is point out to an alcoholic that drinking that much is ruining their life and they'd stop, or point out to our best friend that his new girlfriend is a complete, gold-digging bitch and he'd break up with her.

I know this sounds nuts, but logic and what makes "sense" or "adds up" will get you nowhere in understanding the world of PEDs. It ain't about logic. It's a special kind of warped behavior with its own rules and sick rationalizations.

[xcrunna]

Then why are the cheaters always ahead of the testers? Why did all of those big stars test positive in 2003 during the anonymous period, and then none did during the past few years? Why did amphetamine use plummet after it was banned? Why did NFL and MLB players switch to HGH after testing? Why didn't Marion Jones take nandrolone, DHEA et al. instead of less detectable designer drugs? Why aren't athletes using CERA and EPO interchangably? Athletes don't want to get caught and face punishment- I think that is the logic. Otherwise, I agree they can take anything and everything. Merritt could have and would have tested positive for DHEA and numerous other drugs that actually are testable years ago. This time, he tested positive three times in, what, a 2 month span. There wasn't some new test that magically broke up that "cocktail" of doping.

[Zat0pek]

Then why are the cheaters always ahead of the testers?

Self-preservation, competitive advantage and natural instinct of a cockroach to stay in the dark.

Why did all of those big stars test positive in 2003 during the anonymous period, and then none did during the past few years?

For the same reasons that Marion tested clean 160 times despite using EPO, steroids and HGH. For the same reasons I've seen guys take the medicine cabinet, become an All-American and test clean the very next day. As for 2003 . . . remember the wizard and remember the mirage.


Why did amphetamine use plummet after it was banned? Why did NFL and MLB players switch to HGH after testing?

You're assuming these things are true. That assumption is based on (1) reporting and (2) test results. Remember the wizard. Remember the mirage.

Why didn't Marion Jones take nandrolone, DHEA et al. instead of less detectable designer drugs? Why aren't athletes using CERA and EPO interchangably? Athletes don't want to get caught and face punishment- I think that is the logic.

That's an instinct for self-preservation. That's a cockroach trying to stay in the dark.

Otherwise, I agree they can take anything and everything. Merritt could have and would have tested positive for DHEA and numerous other drugs that actually are testable years ago. This time, he tested positive three times in, what, a 2 month span. There wasn't some new test that magically broke up that "cocktail" of doping.

The most common way to get caught in a test is to be stupid, miscalculate or just be unlucky.

[xcrunna]

The most common way to get caught in a test is to be stupid, miscalculate or just be unlucky.
We're agreeing on everything FWIW, just drawing different conclusions. Mine is that the motivation of self-preservation (I know you hate the word logic) drives athletes not to use the detectable drugs like DHEA, nandrolone et al. Once something gets tested, they move onto the next untested thing (those were my examples). Merritt would have to be a buffoon to knowingly use DHEA on its own. Even worse, to all of a sudden begin to use it: a) given its questionable performance-enhancing characteristics and b) given the fact that he already had won two gold medals without it (and if did use PED's he obviously had good enough, undetectable ones). Alright, maybe he is that stupid, or maybe his handlers are that dumb. I don't see it, nor do I see any type of McGwire-esque "smoke-screen" theory having any application here.

[orthostice]

It reminds me of Alminova testing positive for Pseudophedrine(not a masking agent, but illegal) earlier in the year. She very well may be doping, but I'd bet she uses something that a) works much better (EPO/blood doping) and b) isn't obviously detectable. Say you were on EPO, and you believe you can elude getting caught. How does taking Sudafed help you? It probably doesn't work and it will get you busted. When you get busted, the people who think you are doping get even more firepower and your chance of getting caught for your "real" substance of choice remains the exact same and maybe higher as they can test you more frequently.

Pseudoephedrine actually works quite well as a stimulant, which is probably why Alminova was taking it. Once you've made the decision to blood dope/take EPO/whathaveyou, what's popping a little pill after you're just off the plane and need to do a session?
I'd also discount the idea that Alminova, or anyone else, cares about giving ammunition to people who think she is on drugs. The percentage of people who actually get it is depressingly small. She'll never be booed (or whistled, in Europe) out of a stadium and can keep collecting her sizeable (for a runner) paychecks. Tyler Hamilton said that he ate his chimeric twin in the womb for Christ's sake - and people lapped that **** up. The crowd at Hayward Field is supposedly knowledgeable when it comes to athletics, yet they do not give **** number one that Athletics West was a total cluster**** of drug use and 'heroes' like Salazar likely cheated. They yell just as loudly for amateur hematologists like Ramzi ("ooooh, double World Champion!"), El Guerrouj, etc. and are still enamoured with Mary Slaney ... and this is a 'knowledgeable' crowd? Imagine how blind the uninformed are. People are more than happy to believe ridiculous stories and ignore inconvenient information in order to avoid uncomfortable truths.

[xcrunna]

Pseudoephedrine actually works quite well as a stimulant, which is probably why Alminova was taking it. Once you've made the decision to blood dope/take EPO/whathaveyou, what's popping a little pill after you're just off the plane and need to do a session?
I'd also discount the idea that Alminova, or anyone else, cares about giving ammunition to people who think she is on drugs. The percentage of people who actually get it is depressingly small. She'll never be booed (or whistled, in Europe) out of a stadium and can keep collecting her sizeable (for a runner) paychecks. Tyler Hamilton said that he ate his chimeric twin in the womb for Christ's sake - and people lapped that **** up. The crowd at Hayward Field is supposedly knowledgeable when it comes to athletics, yet they do not give **** number one that Athletics West was a total cluster**** of drug use and 'heroes' like Salazar likely cheated. They yell just as loudly for amateur hematologists like Ramzi ("ooooh, double World Champion!"), El Guerrouj, etc. and are still enamoured with Mary Slaney ... and this is a 'knowledgeable' crowd? Imagine how blind the uninformed are. People are more than happy to believe ridiculous stories and ignore inconvenient information in order to avoid uncomfortable truths.
It's nothing to you, except for the whole "not getting caught or punished" thing that was part of your game plan when you started doping. I guess for Alminova the second part of your post may apply because she got away with a slap on the wrist and she won't miss a WC/cash opportunities. I don't think this same argument applies to Merritt, though. He's lost it all and a "what's a little bit of DHEA" attitude is mind-bogglingly dumb and inplausible as I asserted in my last post.