Fix NCAA coverage for next year

[jekyllman]

Email the ncaa at pmr@ncaa.org and tell them to let Flotrack to it next year. It was ridiculous that they didn't have a cart cam or show the finish of anyone but Chelanga and Sambu. We have to stop getting shafted.

[GeorgieTheK]

Not to mention the actual results of the race!

h.s. races have results posted faster.

It's sad, plain sad.

[A Blind Guy]

cart cam is a must, i seriously dont understand why they didnt have that.

they had a ****ing cart, and a ****ing camera, put the last one on the first one.

not hard.

[CrossHare]

i'll do it, instantly 10x better... if flotrack were to do it, 100x better!

[eh000]

Can't blame them for the wind (which meant no overhead stuff).

Can blame them for
1) no cart cameras
2) Larry Rawson

[jekyllman]

Can't blame them for the wind (which meant no overhead stuff).

Can blame them for
1) no cart cameras
2) Larry Rawson

Understandable, I think everyone agrees that they were hampered slightly by that but seriously the cart cam is a given. Plus, the finishline cam was a complete joke. I was pounding my desk in frustration as Sam Chelanga appeared to be neck-and-neck with German Fernandez for 3 minutes as they ran toward the camera and then once Sam finished it was just them hugging as the actual team race was completely neglected.

[nyrunner09]

why does it matter if they didn't show the pack? xc's not a team sport or anything. the only runner that matters is the first guy right?

[southkakrun]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKMZfYn6e80
import these guys to announce

[bongturk]

they did show the finish in the womens' race. can't understand why they didn't for the men. since the mens' team race was in doubt most of the race, i wish they had shown more of that front chasing pack.
i used to like rawson but he is getting very annoying , especially with that one percent two percent baloney. isn't there someone who can announce an xc race intelligently??? haven't heard one yet.
it would be nice if they could get the results out a bit faster too.
camera on the cart is nice but flotrack's camera at the regionals or prenats was nausea inducing.

[cnick]

CBS owns the rights to the meet. Flotrack or RunnerSpace would have to pay CBS to do the broadcast on their site.

[The Saint]

Email the ncaa at pmr@ncaa.org and tell them to let Flotrack to it next year. It was ridiculous that they didn't have a cart cam or show the finish of anyone but Chelanga and Sambu. We have to stop getting shafted.
You didn't pay for it, you didn't get shafted.

[The Saint]

What're you guys talking about? I was able to watch the finish of the men's race.

[jekyllman]

You didn't pay for it, you didn't get shafted.

Dude, shut up.

[orthostice]

cart cam is a must, i seriously dont understand why they didnt have that.

they had a ****ing cart, and a ****ing camera, put the last one on the first one.

not hard.

You need a $teadicam on a cart to do it properly, or else half the viewership will be throwing up.


i used to like rawson but he is getting very annoying , especially with that one percent two percent baloney.

If you can believe it, he spends his free time brainstorming the stupid **** he says on air. I'm serious. In some ways, it would almost be better if the "Corvette engine in a VW chassis" nonsense were an off-the-cuff remark instead of the product of several months of deep thought.

CBS owns the rights to the meet. Flotrack or RunnerSpace would have to pay CBS to do the broadcast on their site.

Nice plug.

Dude, shut up.

"Reality is not welcome here," says the Mormon.

[jekyllman]

"Reality is not welcome here," says the Mormon.


Reality? You are a confused, child.

[eh000]

Reality? You are a confused, child.

What's a confused?

[jekyllman]

What's a confused?

Delete the comma, there you have it.

[orthostice]

What's a confused?

Apparently an adherent to an economic system where people can bitch about things they don't pay for, see depth on the mens side of the Pac-10, and find revelation in magic stones buried in the backyard.

The 'Critical Thinking' lever is clearly fully engaged on this lad.

[jekyllman]

Apparently an adherent to an economic system where people can bitch about things they don't pay for....

So if Flotrack covered the meet, how would I be paying for that?

[orthostice]

So if Flotrack covered the meet, how would I be paying for that?

With brain cells from listening to those clowns.

You wouldn't be paying money of course, and you still wouldn't have a right to bitch about any perceived lack in quality.

http://unprofessionalfoul.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/gift-horse1.jpg

[jekyllman]

With brain cells from listening to those clowns.

You wouldn't be paying money of course, and you still wouldn't have a right to bitch about any perceived lack in quality.


Quick pic fix.

"With brain cells" he says. Seriously though, why can't I complain about one free coverage being worse than another?

[WETPITS]

I agree, how the hell do you guys feel obligated to a higher quality feed when you guys did not pay a cent?

[jekyllman]

I agree, how the hell do you guys feel obligated to a higher quality feed when you guys did not pay a cent?

So if the NCAA takes over the NCAA basketball tourney with a single camera mounted on the top row and spectators standing in the way the whole game, you don't think a few fans might be displeased? *gasp* Even without paying for it??!?!

[jbf]

So if the NCAA takes over the NCAA basketball tourney with a single camera mounted on the top row and spectators standing in the way the whole game, you don't think a few fans might be displeased? *gasp* Even without paying for it??!?!
You steal cable?

[jekyllman]

You steal cable?

You steal internet?

[WETPITS]

So if the NCAA takes over the NCAA basketball tourney with a single camera mounted on the top row and spectators standing in the way the whole game, you don't think a few fans might be displeased? *gasp* Even without paying for it??!?!

Cross country has obviously never had the same type of coverage as basketball does, nor does it bring the same type of revenue.

[jekyllman]

Cross country has obviously never had the same type of coverage as basketball does, nor does it bring the same type of revenue.

Completely irrelevant

[jbf]

You steal internet?
I think this helps my point.

[orthostice]

Quick pic fix.

"With brain cells" he says. Seriously though, why can't I complain about one free coverage being worse than another?

My original photo was way better - the guy had a headlamp on. Alas, the superlong URL.

Anyhow, your complaint about Larry Rawson and Co. vs. the Delta Tau Stachie boyeees is directly related to your unwillingness to pay to watch NCAA XC. If you (and a couple thousand others) were willing to shell out a few bucks then perhaps Fratboytrack could buy the rights to the meet. As you (and a couple thousand others) are obviously in no mood to spend any cash, you are stuck with Larry Rawson.
Ditto for the "cartcam." If CBS weren't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts (or because they have to as part of their basketball contract, most likely) and there was actually a budget for the production, they might invest in a Steadicam on a Gator.
The ****tiness of the coverage and the non-"RyanFentonfromflotrackherewithmystashieboyyyyeeeeeee!"-ness of the meet is entirely down to your unwillingness to part with your hard-earned cash.

So if the NCAA takes over the NCAA basketball tourney with a single camera mounted on the top row and spectators standing in the way the whole game, you don't think a few fans might be displeased? *gasp* Even without paying for it??!?!

This, of course, will never happen as there are millions of paying customers (yes, paying - either individuals paying their cable bills, bars buying sports packages, etc.) demanding a high-quality product where they get to see every last one of Coach K's nostril hairs.

[GeorgieTheK]

You steal cable?


The NCAA basketball tourney is broadcast on CBS. Which last I checked, it still available without cable.

[orthostice]

Completely irrelevant

If you don't see the connection between the market for an event, the revenue associated with televising an event, and the quality of the coverage of said event ... you are hopeless.

[jekyllman]

My original photo was way better - the guy had a headlamp on. Alas, the superlong URL.

Anyhow, your complaint about Larry Rawson and Co. vs. the Delta Tau Stachie boyeees is directly related to your unwillingness to pay to watch NCAA XC. If you (and a couple thousand others) were willing to shell out a few bucks then perhaps Fratboytrack could buy the rights to the meet. As you (and a couple thousand others) are obviously in no mood to spend any cash, you are stuck with Larry Rawson.
Ditto for the "cartcam." If CBS weren't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts (or because they have to as part of their basketball contract, most likely) and there was actually a budget for the production, they might invest in a Steadicam on a Gator.
The ****tiness of the coverage and the non-"RyanFentonfromflotrackherewithmystashieboyyyyeeeeeee!"-ness of the meet is entirely down to your unwillingness to part with your hard-earned cash.




I paid to upgrade my satellite subscription last year to watch it on Versus, and it sucked too. So don't tell me I'm not willing to pay for it. I absolutely would.

[CrossHare]

Even though the feed was ****ty I felt it was the announcers that made it really bad. There are a lot of people that would do it free of charge and do it much better.

I'm also unsure of why people are arguing with Nate. I understand your points but I know deep down you would like a better feed. If the NCAA doesn't make any money off the event why wouldn't they let flotrack cover it?

[cnick]

If the NCAA doesn't make any money off the event why wouldn't they let flotrack cover it?

Because they do. It's bundled into one of their tv rights contracts. Someone pays for the rights to broadcast the event. They don't just give it to anybody.

[TeamOrange]

My only problem was finish line angle, it was cut half off because of the bend. If they moved 8 steps to the right it would of been fine. Cart cam would of been nice but last year I remember people complaining about it being bumpy.

The announcers sucked but what do you expect them to say for 30+ mins of running. I mean of course they are going to say stupid stuff said over that time regardless who you pick up

[CrossHare]

They could at least know who the runners are! They knew Chelanga, Puskedra, McNeil and the big names from Stanford and OSU. It took them forever for someone to tell them who the other guys were.

[orthostice]

The announcers sucked but what do you expect them to say for 30+ mins of running. I mean of course they are going to say stupid stuff said over that time regardless who you pick up

It's really not that hard. People think they need to do some sort of play-by-play thing ... "there's Chelanga, and there's Sambu ... and Chelanga, and Sambu ... and they're running ... AND SAMBU WIPES HIS NOSE! ... left turn ..." etc. - which is stupid because the viewers aren't blind and can see that for themselves - really they just need to have a conversation about college cross country. It's a ****ing webcast - there aren't going to be randoms switching over from 'The 700 Club' - it's only going to be diehards, so there's no need to waste time with the basics or the 1-3% energy loss leading into the wind or other such bull****. I think if me and xcrunna (though there are others who are knowledgeable, and I don't meant to slight them) sat there and talked shop for an hour, people would get more out of it than the ****e I've been muting for several years.

[boltoncct&f]

The announcers sucked but what do you expect them to say for 30+ mins of running. I mean of course they are going to say stupid stuff said over that time regardless who you pick up

Like, "being from the wind swept plains of Oklahoma really gave them an advantage..."

Which must be true, since there is wind nowhere else in the U.S.:D

[Vano]

haha the 700 club. My mom used to watch that.

[jekyllman]

I'm really confused what side you people are on. Runners are the most spineless group of kids in the world. No passion whatsoever. Everybody is a "realist" which translates to "don't try to do anything unless the odds are in your favor." No wonder this sport gets nowhere. Just a bunch of docile little girls.

[WETPITS]

I'm really confused what side you people are on. Runners are the most spineless group of kids in the world. No passion whatsoever. Everybody is a "realist" which translates to "don't try to do anything unless the odds are in your favor." No wonder this sport gets nowhere. Just a bunch of docile little girls.

Well of course we would all like it to be live and in HD on NBC, with all the fancy cart and blimp cams going.

[mgcc]

I'm really confused what side you people are on. Runners are the most spineless group of kids in the world. No passion whatsoever. Everybody is a "realist" which translates to "don't try to do anything unless the odds are in your favor." No wonder this sport gets nowhere. Just a bunch of docile little girls.

You hit the nail on the head. Welcome to tracktalk.

And I'm not joking, **** half these people.

[FastAsATurtle]

I'm really confused what side you people are on. Runners are the most spineless group of kids in the world. No passion whatsoever. Everybody is a "realist" which translates to "don't try to do anything unless the odds are in your favor." No wonder this sport gets nowhere. Just a bunch of docile little girls.

http://www.turnoffyourtv.com/radio/show10/anakinsith.jpg

Without reality, and with a few more rhetorical lines in the sand, we can all successfully overcome the high ground. You've just got to believe.

[jekyllman]

http://www.turnoffyourtv.com/radio/show10/anakinsith.jpg

Without reality, and with a few more rhetorical lines in the sand, we can all successfully overcome the high ground. You've just got to believe.

You're right, we should just roll over and die. No sense trying.

[FastAsATurtle]

You're right, we should just roll over and die. No sense trying.

There's a difference between "trying" and "histrionics."

"Trying" is posting the feedback link in your first post and suggesting that anyone as disappointed as you should write in. I think that's great, and I took advantage of the address you provided to send in a few words. Multiple sentences, even.

"Histrionics" is claiming that everyone who tries to explain the poor coverage through logical reasoning and a nod to corporate buffoonery simply hates running.

[usnspecialist]

I'm really confused what side you people are on. Runners are the most spineless group of kids in the world. No passion whatsoever. Everybody is a "realist" which translates to "don't try to do anything unless the odds are in your favor." No wonder this sport gets nowhere. Just a bunch of docile little girls.

werent you the same delusional individual i had an argument with on the old dyestat about how running should get equal time on ESPN and other sports networks as football? That is never going to happen and saying so does not make me a "docile little girl". Do i wish the coverage would get better, of course i do. I could do a better job than carol lewis and larry rawson (and probably a lot cheaper too). However running (particularly cross country) is a true niche sport and to think we will get the big bucks thrown at our coverage for all of the fancy stuff is just lunacy.

[xcrunna]

Logistics of the cart cam and multiple viewing angles aside, it is pretty simple what most XC fans need/want out of their announcers. It's not rocket science, either. Hire someone who will prepare. Do you think Rawson had any idea who Miles Unterreiner was and what his significance to the team race was? I doubt it. So, first step is to get someone who knows the critical athletes of the teams in the teams hunt, and knows about the dynamics of that race. If NXN has figured this out mostly with Rich Gonzalez doing the honors(I won't lie and say I know if he executes as an announcer, but it's the right idea at the very least), I'd like to think that the NCAA nationals could do the same. And, if it has to be flotrack make it Kelsall, please. Anyone else, and we might be really just trading incompetence for overdone enthusiasm.

[KevinM]

It's really not that hard. People think they need to do some sort of play-by-play thing ... "there's Chelanga, and there's Sambu ... and Chelanga, and Sambu ... and they're running ... AND SAMBU WIPES HIS NOSE! ... left turn ..." etc. - which is stupid because the viewers aren't blind and can see that for themselves - really they just need to have a conversation about college cross country. It's a ****ing webcast - there aren't going to be randoms switching over from 'The 700 Club' - it's only going to be diehards, so there's no need to waste time with the basics or the 1-3% energy loss leading into the wind or other such bull****. I think if me and xcrunna (though there are others who are knowledgeable, and I don't meant to slight them) sat there and talked shop for an hour, people would get more out of it than the ****e I've been muting for several years.

Fantastic post. Extreme niche web broadcasting has tremendous potential, and so much of it is wasted using the same "Running for Dummies" production approach that the NBC Olympic model (and ESPN & CBS) brings us.

[jekyllman]

Fantastic post. Extreme niche web broadcasting has tremendous potential, and so much of it is wasted using the same "Running for Dummies" production approach that the NBC Olympic model (and ESPN & CBS) brings us.


Agreed. Like Flotrack. Make it slightly more professional but they have the knowledge. I think it's key for the people doing the meet know things about the athletes that people like us don't know yet. Interview the athletes beforehand and get some inside info to share during the race. Training plans, racing plans, injuries, great workouts they had leading up to the race, etc.

[orthostice]

Like Flotrack. Make it slightly more professional but they have the knowledge. I think it's key for the people doing the meet know things about the athletes that people like us don't know yet.

The thing is, they don't have the knowledge. I'd say that there are a handful of people on this very site whose understanding of the sport far surpasses any of those slapdicks.

[the architect]

The thing is, they don't have the knowledge. I'd say that there are a handful of people on this very site whose understanding of the sport far surpasses any of those slapdicks.
they do have knowlege...they might not be running gurus but they know more than the average person and they've developed relationships with most of the top runners and coaches so that they can give an insider's view, or at least more inside that that jackoff larry rawson

[reee]

I'd like to see the coverage better, but to say it needs to be fixed is wrong. I thought the job was fine enough. The most important thing they needed was splits and team scores, and they had those through each significant part of the race. It was also fast. Results coulda been faster, but that's always an issue with meets and I'd like to see that done better.