Verzbicas

[Zen Miler]

Vote.

[Gummy Shark]

He was pushed today by Futsum. I say he wins NXN, but Futsum nabs him at Footloacker due to the tougher course and the constant racing.

[Evilution]

Where's Lutz?

[thatguy]

lutz is the only one who is good enough to cover the move that verzbicas makes mid race and still have the speed left to out kick him at the end

[TTposter]

wins them both, GOAT

[Crystazul]

He was pushed today by Futsum. I say he wins NXN, but Futsum nabs him at Footloacker due to the tougher course and the constant racing.
Are you serious? Lukas looked like he was jogging into the finish from the Flotrack video.

[emdeb]

He was pushed today by Futsum. I say he wins NXN, but Futsum nabs him at Footloacker due to the tougher course and the constant racing.

Just because it was a close race doesn't mean he was pushed by Futsum. Lukas only needed to finish in the top 10. He probably realized that even if he didn't come in first it wasn't worth putting in more effort since he would qualify anyways and still have 2 hard races to go.

[TeamOrange]

Are you serious? Lukas looked like he was jogging into the finish from the Flotrack video.

Just because it was a close race doesn't mean he was pushed by Futsum. Lukas only needed to finish in the top 10. He probably realized that even if he didn't come in first it wasn't worth putting in more effort since he would qualify anyways and still have 2 hard races to go.

Didn't watch it but people from the race told me he pushed it

[Cocakula]

Lutz, Lukas, or Rosa for NXN, not sure about FL

[greenman]

Where's Lutz?

lutz is the only one who is good enough to cover the move that verzbicas makes mid race and still have the speed left to out kick him at the endIsn't Lutz not running FL?

[the architect]

rosa will win nxn, chad noelle win win FL

[SEAURCHIN4]

rosa will win nxn, chad noelle win win FL

I think that you're the architect of poor guesses. :p

[the architect]

I think that you're the architect of poor guesses. :p
good one

[emdeb]

Didn't watch it but people from the race told me he pushed it

I just watched the interview Lukas did on flotrack and Lukas made it seem like he only pushed it at the end once he saw Fatsum gaining on him, but was able to just run for majority of the race.

[karakorum]

but was able to just run for majority of the race.

As opposed to what, just walking the rest of the race?

I think the four weeks of hard racing must give Lukas' competitors who aren't doubling the nationals an advantage.

[donpepe]

As opposed to what, just walking the rest of the race?

I think the four weeks of hard racing must give Lukas' competitors who aren't doubling the nationals an advantage.

keep in mind Lukas only ran 3 XC (4 if you include the marathon road race) races in IL this year

[emdeb]

As opposed to what, just walking the rest of the race?

I think the four weeks of hard racing must give Lukas' competitors who aren't doubling the nationals an advantage.

As opposed to having to race hard the whole way.

I don't think the advantage will come into play until Footlocker Nationals. By then we could definitely see the numerous races take a toll on his body.

keep in mind Lukas only ran 3 XC (4 if you include the marathon road race) races in IL this year

I think that kind of works in and against his favor. It helps that he hasn't raced nearly as much so his body is somewhat fresher even though he did race in the world triathlon. But the lack of races could hurt his conditioning as he might not be used to racing as much as those that have been racing week after week the whole season.

[mainesouthxcdad]

I was at FLMW. Lucas was already well in front at the 1 and 3/4 mile mark and was looking back to see if anyone was close. I knew then that he was not going for the course record and was going to run just hard enough to win. As was reported, he saw Futsum gaining in the last 300m, but from what I saw, that is only because Lukas had taken his foot off the gas half way through the race.

No doubt, Lukas will be pushed by some terrific runners at both NXN and FLN. The toll of racing every week could catch up to him, especially at FLN, and especially if he is pushed hard at NXN.

But, I think Lukas appreciates the history of the sport. He is not just a cardio-monster, as some have said, but he also appears to be a fierce competitor. And he is not only competing against Rosa, Lutz, Futsum, et al. He is competing against Derrick and the others who tried to pull the double. He wouldn't be running them both if he didn't think he could win them both.

I have yet to see anyone his own age beat Lukas in a running race, except when he went for a national record in a two mile race a week after trying to go under 4 minutes in the dream mile. Lukas looks great, he is running smart, and I wouldn't bet against him in either national championship race.

[BlackIrish]

Lukas Verzbicas has 4:04y and ~14:00 range. Rosa is going to have his hands full at NXN. I think the one person who has similar range is elias Gedyon. He could possibly win it all. Isn't it a shame our American borns are getting beat out time and time again? Lutz and Rosa have decent shots to win though.

[fireonthetrack11]

beat me to it. elias gedyon anyone? gedyon and lutz pretty much blitzed joe at NXN last year, and yet only lutz has thus far received much credit for leg speed at the end.

Also calling edward cheserek from NJ as a dark horse. Not to win, but at least a high finish. second to Rosa at NXN NE this past weekend, but not well known. I think he's a soph.

[fireonthetrack11]

I have yet to see anyone his own age beat Lukas in a running race, except when he went for a national record in a two mile race a week after trying to go under 4 minutes in the dream mile. Lukas looks great, he is running smart, and I wouldn't bet against him in either national championship race.

sorry dude, somewhat off. Yes, that was a significant one, but there's the 2009 NON 2 mile (Dunbar for the win), the Midwest Distance Gala Mile, and I think maybe another mile in there somewhere. that being said, I agree with the non-highlighted portion of your post, I think that Verzbicas probably has a better shot than anyone, even in both national title races. I just wanted to make the point that he's not completely superhuman.

[Joe Lanzalotto]

beat me to it. elias gedyon anyone? gedyon and lutz pretty much blitzed joe at NXN last year, and yet only lutz has thus far received much credit for leg speed at the end.

Also calling edward cheserek from NJ as a dark horse. Not to win, but at least a high finish. second to Rosa at NXN NE this past weekend, but not well known. I think he's a soph.

He is a legit soph and he will do very well this weekend. In the races he could run here (his school is not a full-fledged member of the state association so no state meet for him) he did very well, smashing a couple very decent course records. I'd be surprised if he were not with the lead pack the entire way.

[Equinox2100]

Lutz and Geydon, in that order, are the only ones who can do it IMO.

Lutz is returning to defend his title, and he'll want that one bad.

If Lukas plays is safer and doesn't take it from the gun because of footlocker the week after, he'll get nabbed at the end IMO. Geydon has fantastic speed, but Lutz held him off last year.

Either way, it'll be a fantastic race.

[usnspecialist]

sorry dude, somewhat off. Yes, that was a significant one, but there's the 2009 NON 2 mile (Dunbar for the win), the Midwest Distance Gala Mile, and I think maybe another mile in there somewhere. that being said, I agree with the non-highlighted portion of your post, I think that Verzbicas probably has a better shot than anyone, even in both national title races. I just wanted to make the point that he's not completely superhuman.

i would throw the MDG mile out, i was there that day and he had just shy of 45 minutes from the end of his 2 mile battle with Haile (in which he destroyed solomon at the end of the race) to the start of the mile in a race that was the best setup for a sub 4 mile we have seen in recent years. Not exactly a recipe for success.

[greenman]

Of course Lukas isn't superhuman, but over the last two years he's won most of the big races out there, at a variety of distances. There's no question he's the favorite and I believe he can win both.

[TeamOrange]

I feel as though he is going to struggle with NXN, he has never seen the course before and it is unlike anything he has run before. This is why I give Lutz and Gedyon the advantage. Not that I don't think he will win, I think it is a toss up but he has a lot of work to do. Then FL, assuming he wins NXN, will be hard cause he is going to run into the pain train known as Chad Noelle.

[runnerup]

Of course Lukas isn't superhuman, but over the last two years he's won most of the big races out there, at a variety of distances. There's no question he's the favorite and I believe he can win both.

exactly, he can win but I don't think he will. He's defiently good enough to win both, but its just to much racing in a short amount of time against the best in the country. Plus, he hasnt had that much race experience this year, but we'll see if thats good or bad later on.. I dont wanna sound like TeamOrange, but Im going with Chad Noelle at Footlocker, and either Lutz or Rosa at Nike. I think Verbicas will win Footlocker but I always like a underdog story:)

[TeamOrange]

exactly, he can win but I don't think he will. He's defiently good enough to win both, but its just to much racing in a short amount of time against the best in the country. Plus, he hasnt had that much race experience this year, but we'll see if thats good or bad later on.. I dont wanna sound like TeamOrange, but Im going with Chad Noelle at Footlocker, and either Lutz or Rosa at Nike. I think Verbicas will win Footlocker but I always like a underdog story:)

The Chad Noelle band wagon welcomes you, next stop a national championship.

BTW Lukas has raced enough this season, states NXN MW FL-MW and various other meets and has been highly successful at all of them

[Heracles]

I'll be quite excited if we see our first ever sub 15:00 at NXN.

[westxc]

I'll be quite excited if we see our first ever sub 15:00 at NXN.

The talent is there, but weather will probably be a severely limiting factor-

http://www.wunderground.com/US/OR/Portland.html


Also, I really don't understand this Noelle bandwagoning. He should do well, but why the confidence that he will beat Verzbicas, Futsum, Orman, & etc.?

[runnerup]

The talent is there, but weather will probably be a severely limiting factor-

http://www.wunderground.com/US/OR/Portland.html


Also, I really don't understand this Noelle bandwagoning. He should do well, but why the confidence that he will beat Verzbicas, Futsum, Orman, & etc.?

haha have a little faith, the kid virutually doesnt run any mileage (35mpw last spring), second race of the year (16:43 masters race), and just got the right attitude about racing. Wheres the fun in saying Verbicas will always win!:)

[MPLS]

I'm calling Ammar for a top 4 place at NXN. I also think that kid from Arizona will do well.

[HUNTOARBHUNTED]

I know there were different runners in 2007 than in 2010 and 2010 might be the most competitive individual year yet, but, Derrick got 1st at NXN and 2nd at Footlocker. LV ran a second faster at the midwest regional for NXN than Derrick and when Derrick ran, there were no hay barrels (at the regional). Also, I may be wrong but I'm almost positive Lucas ran faster at the Midwest Regional for Footlocker, too. Lucas will win both.

[BONK]

I know there were different runners in 2007 than in 2010 and 2010 might be the most competitive individual year yet, but, Derrick got 1st at NXN and 2nd at Footlocker. LV ran a second faster at the midwest regional for NXN than Derrick and when Derrick ran, there were no hay barrels (at the regional). Also, I may be wrong but I'm almost positive Lucas ran faster at the Midwest Regional for Footlocker, too. Lucas will win both.

Lukas was definitely faster than Chris at FLMW. Chris was second in that race to Mike Fout and didn't seem to be racing all out since he had NTN the next weekend.

[logan]

i simply wanted to make a vaguely worthless contribution to this thread by noting that i think chad noelle looks an awful lot like topher grace.

http://www.tullyrunners.com/Outdoor10/Photos/NYSB3200a.jpg

http://www.topnews.in/files/images/Topher-Grace1_0.jpg

[roller coaster]

i simply wanted to make a vaguely worthless contribution to this thread by noting that i think chad noelle looks an awful lot like topher grace.

http://www.tullyrunners.com/Outdoor10/Photos/NYSB3200a.jpg

http://www.topnews.in/files/images/Topher-Grace1_0.jpg

Strong 1st post...and you are very correct!

[usnspecialist]

I know there were different runners in 2007 than in 2010 and 2010 might be the most competitive individual year yet, but, Derrick got 1st at NXN and 2nd at Footlocker. LV ran a second faster at the midwest regional for NXN than Derrick and when Derrick ran, there were no hay barrels (at the regional). Also, I may be wrong but I'm almost positive Lucas ran faster at the Midwest Regional for Footlocker, too. Lucas will win both.

if you are going by that though, derrick ran faster than lukas at state.

[Heracles]

http://www.flotrack.org/videos/coverage/view_video/237064-under-armour-run-origins-workout-wednesdays/374404

[HUNTOARBHUNTED]

if you are going by that though, derrick ran faster than lukas at state.

Very good point, I didn't think of that. I guess we will have to wait and see what happens.

[mainesouthxcdad]

Remember, the trend is your friend. And the trend is that Lukas is running faster post-state meet than Chris did on the same courses (and with hay bales in Terre Haute!). I expect the trend to continue. Whether that will be good enough to win either or both NXN and FLN against a talented boys group remains to be seen.

[Wait....What?]

Remember, the trend is your friend. And the trend is that Lukas is running faster post-state meet than Chris did on the same courses (and with hay bales in Terre Haute!). I expect the trend to continue. Whether that will be good enough to win either or both NXN and FLN against a talented boys group remains to be seen.

I expect Lukas to run faster than Chris Derrick considering that Chris Derrick's year at NTN's was extremely slower than the past 2 years; last year alone the top 21 runners were faster than Chris Derrick's time.

[Phenom Man]

Personally, I think Lukas will be able to do both. I think if he just sticks with the strategy of staying with the pack and kicking after the 2 mile or so, he will have no problem running away from the competition. I feel the closest guy to him is Lutz for sure, and because it's hard to compare times, they may even be equal, but you can't be sure until they run in the same race.

[tb1223]

Personally, I think Lukas will be able to do both. I think if he just sticks with the strategy of staying with the pack and kicking after the 2 mile or so, he will have no problem running away from the competition. I feel the closest guy to him is Lutz for sure, and because it's hard to compare times, they may even be equal, but you can't be sure until they run in the same race.

That would probably not be an ideal strategy for Lukas. His strength seems to be getting out hard, and then nobody is close enough to catch him. Many have speculated that anyone who can stick with Lukas through 2 miles might have a pretty good chance of outkicking him.

[king99]

I do not know if Cheserek will beat him, but I highly doubt he will let Lukas go at any pace.

Cheserek did seem to struggle with cooler weather last week, which was actually not too bad in the NE. He is a front runner though and used to going out hard.

[donpepe]

That would probably not be an ideal strategy for Lukas. His strength seems to be getting out hard, and then nobody is close enough to catch him. Many have speculated that anyone who can stick with Lukas through 2 miles might have a pretty good chance of outkicking him.

I think that what gets lost in the way Lukas races, is that he usually does crush the field, so you forget what type of closing speed he has. He usually gets out hard and does not get touched the rest of the race. He did it at Illinois State XC and at Footlocker MW. But he has really good closing speed. Ask Solomon Haile, or watch Footlocker from last year. He stayed controlled and then dominated the last mile. It seems like his speed often gets overlooked. He did run a 4:03 last year in the mile. I am guessing that he stays controlled and opens it up the last mile at NXN for the win. If he is going to go out and try to crush the field from the start I would guess it would be at Footlocker.

[the architect]

i simply wanted to make a vaguely worthless contribution to this thread by noting that i think chad noelle looks an awful lot like topher grace.

http://www.tullyrunners.com/Outdoor10/Photos/NYSB3200a.jpg

http://www.topnews.in/files/images/Topher-Grace1_0.jpg
i always thought hayden christensen
http://keetsa.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/hayden-christensen.jpg

[Vano]

I don't know what it is but I've always hated talking about future races or what someone will do. What's the point of spending all this time saying what we think will happen. Just wait for the race and watch it. I don't think I've ever posted in any prediction thread on here, dyestat, or letsrun. Just don't see the point. That's just my opinion.

[eh000]

I don't know what it is but I've always hated talking about future races or what someone will do. What's the point of spending all this time saying what we think will happen. Just wait for the race and watch it. I don't think I've ever posted in any prediction thread on here, dyestat, or letsrun. Just don't see the point. That's just my opinion.

The future is a bleak, pitiless void to me as well.

[logan]

i always thought hayden christensen
http://keetsa.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/hayden-christensen.jpg

grace was and remains my first inclination, but hayden not entirely off base. perhaps a conan-esque if they mated?

more on topic, i am going rosa in portland for the jersey roots love and then verzbicas taking foot locker for our current shared adoptive illinois residence.

both should be great races, the talent these last few years is unbelievable. glad i graduated before they all would have mercilessly slaughtered me.

[CoryC]

I think that what gets lost in the way Lukas races, is that he usually does crush the field, so you forget what type of closing speed he has. He usually gets out hard and does not get touched the rest of the race. He did it at Illinois State XC and at Footlocker MW. But he has really good closing speed. Ask Solomon Haile, or watch Footlocker from last year. He stayed controlled and then dominated the last mile. It seems like his speed often gets overlooked. He did run a 4:03 last year in the mile. I am guessing that he stays controlled and opens it up the last mile at NXN for the win. If he is going to go out and try to crush the field from the start I would guess it would be at Footlocker.

I'm not sure Foot Locker last year was the best example. While winning Foot Locker is no easy feat, last year's field was relatively weak, the only one who could have really challenged Verzbicas was Lutz and he was coming off a double we all know is very tough. Plus I'm not sure dominating the last mile is speed, seems more like strength to me. Speed would be smashing everyone in the last half mile or so.

Also, while running 4:04 (not 4:03) is no easy task either, but he did so from running in front the entire time (or at least for the rest of the race after the pacer dropped), so his actual racing prowess is questionable. And I really haven't seen these crazy wheels you claim that he has. I just re-watched the MDG 2 mile from a few years back, and the finish was really more of him making a quick acceleration past Haile 300 out (which it appeared that Haile didn't even try to respond to), putting some distance on Haile (maybe 15-20 meters), and then just holding on (not implying that he was dying, just saying that he gained some ground and then stopped accelerating). But the MDG did show that he seems to have good racing instincts.

This may sound very Orthostice, but Verzbicas has a very loping stride, and NXN is a virtual swamp. Except for FLMW last year, I'm not sure how much experience he has racing in the mud, and I mean real mud not just a little soggy grass. So theoretically, someone with his kind of stride would suck in the mud.

[king99]

I agree that LV is for sure a loper, but with that style he may touch the ground(soft terrain) fewer times than a plodder or someone who looks more economical normally with a rapid cadence type ryhthym. It might work out better.

[greenman]

This may sound very Orthostice, but Verzbicas has a very loping stride, and NXN is a virtual swamp. Except for FLMW last year, I'm not sure how much experience he has racing in the mud, and I mean real mud not just a little soggy grass. So theoretically, someone with his kind of stride would suck in the mud.Footlocker Final last year?

http://www.runnerspace.com/members/photos/383/75496_full.jpg

[CoryC]

Footlocker Final last year?

http://www.runnerspace.com/members/photos/383/75496_full.jpg

I agree that Foot Locker was muddy last year, but it didn't get close to Portland Meadows conditions. And I feel he won Foot Locker mostly because he was just physically domininant over everyone except Lutz, who I mentioned was coming off the double


I agree that LV is for sure a loper, but with that style he may touch the ground(soft terrain) fewer times than a plodder or someone who looks more economical normally with a rapid cadence type ryhthym. It might work out better.

When I said he was a loper I meant it more like whenever his foot plants he puts a lot of energy into the ground, which is great when you're on a track/firm course cause you get a little bit of spring back. But in the mud you just lose all momentum/get no spring back

[greenman]

I agree that Foot Locker was muddy last year, but it didn't get close to Portland Meadows conditions. And I feel he won Foot Locker mostly because he was just physically domininant over everyone except Lutz, who I mentioned was coming off the doubleI can only think of one year where NXN was significantly worse than the other years. I'd say most of the time it's in the condition you see in that picture. I think anyone counting on a slow course to beat Lukas isn't confident they can handle him at all.

[usnspecialist]

Remember, the trend is your friend. And the trend is that Lukas is running faster post-state meet than Chris did on the same courses (and with hay bales in Terre Haute!). I expect the trend to continue. Whether that will be good enough to win either or both NXN and FLN against a talented boys group remains to be seen.

throw out derrick's time at FLMW, he was jogging (by his standards) and saving as much energy as he could for the national double the following weeks.

[CoryC]

I can only think of one year where NXN was significantly worse than the other years. I'd say most of the time it's in the condition you see in that picture. I think anyone counting on a slow course to beat Lukas isn't confident they can handle him at all.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that Verzbicas's competition is relying on a slow course, but from a purely speculative point it does cause me to give an advantage to the competition. And I didn't mention this stuff because it's a slow course, I mentioned it because I just don't think his stride pattern is very conducive to mud running.

I also mentioned that the competition at FL 2009 was not necessarily up to Verzbicas's caliber (imo) with the exception of Lutz (once again, doubling)

[greenman]

I wouldn't go as far as to say that Verzbicas's competition is relying on a slow course, but from a purely speculative point it does cause me to give an advantage to the competition. And I didn't mention this stuff because it's a slow course, I mentioned it because I just don't think his stride pattern is very conducive to mud running.

I also mentioned that the competition at FL 2009 was not necessarily up to Verzbicas's caliber (imo) with the exception of Lutz (once again, doubling)Like you say, it is speculation. There's nothing to show he can't run in the mud and there's nothing that shows other runners can handle it better than him...however, he has shown he can run in less than ideal conditions and I'm not sure many others can even make that claim.

The more relevant factor imo is Lukas has beaten or challenged significant course records by Virgin, Derrick and Ritz in each of the last 3 races he's run. If anyone beats him, it's because they were just better that day.

[cheesedoodles]

Like you say, it is speculation. There's nothing to show he can't run in the mud and there's nothing that shows other runners can handle it better than him...however, he has shown he can run in less than ideal conditions and I'm not sure many others can even make that claim.

The more relevant factor imo is Lukas has beaten or challenged significant course records by Virgin, Derrick and Ritz in each of the last 3 races he's run. If anyone beats him, it's because they were just better that day.

or they're just better in general... so far all i've seen is people riding lukas' d*ck like its their job... especially considering how everytime i hear that he'll do something amazingly well he blows up big time and runs like a noob

[vaultpurple]

or they're just better in general... so far all i've seen is people riding lukas' d*ck like its their job... especially considering how everytime i hear that he'll do something amazingly well he blows up big time and runs like a noob

4:04 at dream mile as sophomore/junior, 3:56 down hill mile, never losing a cross country race.. real Noob right there, I wonder what would happen if he ever showed up to race?

[xc runner15]

or they're just better in general... so far all i've seen is people riding lukas' d*ck like its their job... especially considering how everytime i hear that he'll do something amazingly well he blows up big time and runs like a noob

everytime? I'm pretty sure you're referring to the 2 mile last year at nationals when he went for the record and yes, "blew up" because he didn't win. In no other race has he "blow up big time" at all. Not even close. Obviously, this just shows how little you actually know when it comes to Verzbicas

[The Hammer]

4:04 at dream mile as sophomore/junior, 3:56 down hill mile, never losing a cross country race.. real Noob right there, I wonder what would happen if he ever showed up to race?
That road mile means nothing. The rest of the races are valid though.

[PirateXC10]

Lukas is a clown he doesnt win either race. Rosa wins nxn and i DGAF who wins fl but its not Lukas because hes so full of himself it's ridiculous all you need to do is watch his flotrack interview after flmw to realize he is a clown with no friends.

[eh000]

This place has turned into Letsrun all of a sudden...

[2togo]

Lukas is a clown he doesnt win either race. Rosa wins nxn and i DGAF who wins fl but its not Lukas because hes so full of himself it's ridiculous all you need to do is watch his flotrack interview after flmw to realize he is a clown with no friends.

negged

[JActon]

Lukas is a clown he doesnt win either race. Rosa wins nxn and i DGAF who wins fl but its not Lukas because hes so full of himself it's ridiculous all you need to do is watch his flotrack interview after flmw to realize he is a clown with no friends.

Yeah, confidence is never good when going into big races. He should really just be hoping for top 10 considering he only won by 15 seconds last year.

[PirateXC10]

just listen when he talks about colleges. Like anyone outside of running cares what colleges hes taking visits to. Just say which ones you are visiting. you don't need to say regions like you are some national phenomenon that people outside of the running community care about. give me a break this kids a clown and once he gets pushed by someone on his own team in college who is just as good as him he will break down mentally.

[the architect]

just listen when he talks about colleges. Like anyone outside of running cares what colleges hes taking visits to. Just say which ones you are visiting. you don't need to say regions like you are some national phenomenon that people outside of the running community care about. give me a break this kids a clown and once he gets pushed by someone on his own team in college who is just as good as him he will break down mentally.
he is a national phenomenon you jackwagon

[McGonagall]

beat me to it. elias gedyon anyone? gedyon and lutz pretty much blitzed joe at NXN last year, and yet only lutz has thus far received much credit for leg speed at the end.

Also calling edward cheserek from NJ as a dark horse. Not to win, but at least a high finish. second to Rosa at NXN NE this past weekend, but not well known. I think he's a soph.
I think Jim is a lot stronger than he was last year, he's been running well all season and could hold his own against the nation's best. Cheserek is good and will finish pretty high up, Lutz could defend his title, and Lukas has been running great, as usual (boo). I think NXN will go:Rosa, Lukas, Moussa, Lutz, Cheserek.
I'm calling Chad Noelle for at least a top five finish at FL.
Sorry I'm bringing this post up. I only read the first two pages

[JActon]

just listen when he talks about colleges. Like anyone outside of running cares what colleges hes taking visits to. Just say which ones you are visiting. you don't need to say regions like you are some national phenomenon that people outside of the running community care about. give me a break this kids a clown and once he gets pushed by someone on his own team in college who is just as good as him he will break down mentally.
Who the **** is going to listen to a flotrack interview if they're not part of the running community?

[Otis Moulmein]

just listen when he talks about colleges. Like anyone outside of running cares what colleges hes taking visits to. Just say which ones you are visiting. you don't need to say regions like you are some national phenomenon that people outside of the running community care about. give me a break this kids a clown and once he gets pushed by someone on his own team in college who is just as good as him he will break down mentally.

Yeah and no one outside of the running community cares about anything related to running so we can't talk about it....eVERYONE NO MORE DISCUSSIONS!

[CoryC]

I think Jim is a lot stronger than he was last year, he's been running well all season and could hold his own against the nation's best. Cheserek is good and will finish pretty high up, Lutz could defend his title, and Lukas has been running great, as usual (boo). I think NXN will go:Rosa, Lukas, Moussa, Lutz, Cheserek.
I'm calling Chad Noelle for at least a top five finish at FL.
Sorry I'm bringing this post up. I only read the first two pages

qfe. also, he's actually won races this fall (prior to this year he had never won a xc race). So I would imagine that would do wonders for his confidence


everytime? I'm pretty sure you're referring to the 2 mile last year at nationals when he went for the record and yes, "blew up" because he didn't win. In no other race has he "blow up big time" at all. Not even close. Obviously, this just shows how little you actually know when it comes to Verzbicas

And i would also say he didn't do so hot in the NON 2009 2 mile (not saying 3rd is horrible, but for Verzbicas I consider it sub par)

[lisk]

qfe. also, he's actually won races this fall (prior to this year he had never won a xc race). So I would imagine that would do wonders for his confidence


To be fair, he had to face his brother Joe in every XC race he ran. But you are right, winning breeds confidence.

[MadwestCC]

I agree that Foot Locker was muddy last year, but it didn't get close to Portland Meadows conditions. And I feel he won Foot Locker mostly because he was just physically domininant over everyone except Lutz, who I mentioned was coming off the double




When I said he was a loper I meant it more like whenever his foot plants he puts a lot of energy into the ground, which is great when you're on a track/firm course cause you get a little bit of spring back. But in the mud you just lose all momentum/get no spring back


http://footlockercc.com/2009/regionalphotos/midwest/FL_Boys_Race/pages/20091128_BR_492_jpg.htm

[CoryC]

To be fair, he had to face his brother Joe in every XC race he ran. But you are right, winning breeds confidence.

I know. That's why I mentioned it

edit: 'it' being that he's been winning

[barefeetrunning741]

And i would also say he didn't do so hot in the NON 2009 2 mile (not saying 3rd is horrible, but for Verzbicas I consider it sub par)

He was a freshman and one of those kids was Trevor Dunbar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89VV2I3b7y0

When I said he was a loper I meant it more like whenever his foot plants he puts a lot of energy into the ground, which is great when you're on a track/firm course cause you get a little bit of spring back. But in the mud you just lose all momentum/get no spring back

This doesn't make sense. For two runners to move the same speed they need to apply the same normal force (Different if they're different weights ect but that's not imp). Whether that is applied by a loping stride or a quick stride the same amount of force is going into the ground so while a shorter stride might be more efficient, percentage wise both strides lose the same amount of energy put in and as a result its not a factor. (Someone check this because its quite possble i'm a noob)

[okko]

I agree that LV is for sure a loper, but with that style he may touch the ground(soft terrain) fewer times than a plodder or someone who looks more economical normally with a rapid cadence type ryhthym. It might work out better.

lol. that's not at all how it works. that said, i can't imagine the mud will really be that much of a factor. i think he wins both.

[CoryC]

He was a freshman and one of those kids was Trevor Dunbar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89VV2I3b7y0



This doesn't make sense. For two runners to move the same speed they need to apply the same normal force (Different if they're different weights ect but that's not imp). Whether that is applied by a loping stride or a quick stride the same amount of force is going into the ground so while a shorter stride might be more efficient, percentage wise both strides lose the same amount of energy put in and as a result its not a factor. (Someone check this because its quite possble i'm a noob)

I really don't care what class someone is a part of unless they're one of the few national class athletes that start running during freshman year cross country (and he was running and competing well before his freshman year). He still races basically the same way, and he also set a national record 5k and won the 2 mile indoor title as a freshman so you can't say 'he was a freshman so he wouldn't run fast/well. And I'm well aware Dunbar is a total beast, don't take me for an ignoramus.

And that is a good point bringing in the physics behind running; however the science behind running doesn't always translate well into physical results.

[barefeetrunning741]

I really don't care what class someone is a part of unless they're one of the few national class athletes that start running during freshman year cross country (and he was running and competing well before his freshman year). He still races basically the same way, and he also set a national record 5k and won the 2 mile indoor title as a freshman so you can't say 'he was a freshman so he wouldn't run fast/well. And I'm well aware Dunbar is a total beast, don't take me for an ignoramus.

And that is a good point bringing in the physics behind running; however the science behind running doesn't always translate well into physical results.

Mostly posted the video for the lolz and for anyone who is new and didn't know him. Obviously most people on here know the name.

The reason I bring up the freshman point is because:
A) His times have come down significantly since then
B) He was racing and running before freshman year but you know as well as I do the difference between your local 5k and a high level race. Also triathlons are totally different especially when you are smooshing people on the run like he does.
C) 2 years is plenty of time for a person to change regardless of prior experience.

Also, Outdoor >>> Indoor.

[CoryC]

Mostly posted the video for the lolz and for anyone who is new and didn't know him. Obviously most people on here know the name.

The reason I bring up the freshman point is because:
A) His times have come down significantly since then
B) He was racing and running before freshman year but you know as well as I do the difference between your local 5k and a high level race. Also triathlons are totally different especially when you are smooshing people on the run like he does.
C) 2 years is plenty of time for a person to change regardless of prior experience.

Also, Outdoor >>> Indoor.

His 2 mile PR is still from that year.

My point was that he had been training intensely before high school, so he's not like many first year freshmen whose times drop drastically over their first year due to the fact that they have usually never seriously worked out before

We all know outdoor is more important. But 14:18 is still damn fast regardless of whether there's a roof over the track.

[Fillet-o-fish]

one down.

[stopPRE1236]

Ummm can I change my vote. jk

[chubs]

Looks like 58% of the people on here are correct.

[Paulsac]

New Poll: Will Lukas choose running or the triatholon? according to his interview on flotrack, his decision will be based on how well his indoor season goes :eek:

[Equinox2100]

Man, it's hard to know how good Lucas is, because he seriously has 0 competition.

[Fitzxc27]

New Poll: Will Lukas choose running or the triatholon? according to his interview on flotrack, his decision will be based on how well his indoor season goes :eek:

from Illinois board...
After state XC, when talking to him, he said he was going to run track...the question will be if he will pick and choose his races, which I think will happen.

[logan]

vaguely verzbicas...

http://www.pollsb.com/photos/o/38040-sebastian_bach.jpg

[PirateXC10]

Read my posts and tell me I was not dead-on with my description of Lukas V. I called his BS from day 1 and you guys all called me a troll. Well who is the troll now? haha:D Anyway on a serious note, I kinda wish he panned out with all that talent but, a kid with the type of mental instability that he clearly had developed from his insecure upbringing with his parents just wouldn't have cut it on a big time national level.

[Crystazul]

Read my posts and tell me I was not dead-on with my description of Lukas V. I called his BS from day 1 and you guys all called me a troll. Well who is the troll now? haha:D Anyway on a serious note, I kinda wish he panned out with all that talent but, a kid with the type of mental instability that he clearly had developed from his insecure upbringing with his parents just wouldn't have cut it on a big time national level.

http://twenty-somethingtravel.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/haters_gonna_hate.gif

[PirateXC10]

http://twenty-somethingtravel.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/haters_gonna_hate.gif

Are you really still supporting his guy after he quit on his team that desperately needed him 2 weeks before the season ended?

[okko]

Read my posts and tell me I was not dead-on with my description of Lukas V. I called his BS from day 1 and you guys all called me a troll. Well who is the troll now? haha:D Anyway on a serious note, I kinda wish he panned out with all that talent but, a kid with the type of mental instability that he clearly had developed from his insecure upbringing with his parents just wouldn't have cut it on a big time national level.

Are you referring to the post where you said he wouldn't win Footlocker or NXN? Cause you were as wrong about that as it's possible to be. Just sayin'.

[PirateXC10]

Are you referring to the post where you said he wouldn't win Footlocker or NXN? Cause you were as wrong about that as it's possible to be. Just sayin'.

That was some trolling on my part I agree but, my description of his character turned out to be dead on right?

[Fitzxc27]

That was some trolling on my part I agree but, my description of his character turned out to be dead on right?

Because you know the guy in person and understand every factor that went into his decision to switch from running to triathlons. And you also felt the need to bump this 15 month old thread to discuss something that happened 6 months ago.

Yep, you totally got us.

[The Hammer]

Read my posts and tell me I was not dead-on with my description of Lukas V. I called his BS from day 1 and you guys all called me a troll. Well who is the troll now? haha:D Anyway on a serious note, I kinda wish he panned out with all that talent but, a kid with the type of mental instability that he clearly had developed from his insecure upbringing with his parents just wouldn't have cut it on a big time national level.

You sound like a tool. I bet you wouldn't even make a high school jv basketball team.

[HappyJack]

Because you know the guy in person and understand every factor that went into his decision to switch from running to triathlons. And you also felt the need to bump this 15 month old thread to discuss something that happened 6 months ago.

Yep, you totally got us.

LOL!!! Getting into an e-fight with someone whom you feel to be much superior than makes you appear to be=to or<than!

[jmac88]

He's an idiot for leaving Oregon

[usnspecialist]

He's an idiot for leaving Oregon

why because he left your beloved sport of full time running? You can quibble with the timing of the decision being right before regionals, but to unequivocally call him an "idiot" for leaving without providing any reasoning is just childish (and that is among the nicer things i could say).

[PRO100]

He's an idiot for leaving Oregon
Lukas just made the decision that was best for him. There is nothing wrong with that. If he felt that he could make the most of his talents in the tri, then so be it and quite whining.

[Cocakula]

I think he gave up too soon. He was talking about how he was ready to be a full-time runner and fully committed to UO. But after he left, one of the things he cited that bothered him is that he wasn't able to train like he used to doing swimming and biking because he was trained like the rest of the team.

I also think he wants to focus on training without school. I follow him on twitter and it seems like all he does is train all day. He is enrolled at the triathlon academy which supposedly has him taking classes at university of colorado at colorado springs, but it doesn't seem like he ever has any homework.

He was a very good runner obviously, but it also helped that he was trained just about as professionally as one could being a kid going to school. His mom is a national record holder in some eastern european country. I think I remember reading an article saying he has been training since he was 5 or thereabouts. Compare that to someone like cheserek who doesn't have near the support that lukas did but will probably break his 2 mile record and go sub 4 at some point.

[HappyJack]

I think he gave up too soon. He was talking about how he was ready to be a full-time runner and fully committed to UO. But after he left, one of the things he cited that bothered him is that he wasn't able to train like he used to doing swimming and biking because he was trained like the rest of the team.

I also think he wants to focus on training without school. I follow him on twitter and it seems like all he does is train all day. He is enrolled at the triathlon academy which supposedly has him taking classes at university of colorado at colorado springs, but it doesn't seem like he ever has any homework.

He was a very good runner obviously, but it also helped that he was trained just about as professionally as one could being a kid going to school. His mom is a national record holder in some eastern european country.


http://verzbicas.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/verzbicas_family.jpg

RASA VERZBICKIENE
Run Coach, Elite Team
Rasa began running at 10 years old and ran for 17 years until she was 27. At 14 she became a member of the National Lithuanian Track and Field Team. She was the Lithuanian National Champion many times and held the Lithuanian national record twice in the 3000 meters. In 1984, Rasa was the Soviet Union college champion. In 1999 she received an Olympic certificate from Olympic president Antonio Samaranch to train elite athletes. In 2000, Rasa improved her coaching skills at the University of Physical Education. From 1987 to 2001, Rasa coached athletes 11-17 years old and many became Lithuanian champions. Rasa is now an MMTT Coach specializing in running.

His Father:
ROMAS BERTULIS
Head Coach, Elite Team
In 1979, while studying at Kaunas Physical Education Academy in Lithuania, Romas started working as a youth track and field coach. In 1980, he finished the academy and was working with athletes in their late teen years. From 1996 to 2001, he was the head coach of Lithuania’s national decathlon team – producing many national champions and podium finishers. From 2002 until today he has coached Lukas Verzbicas and helped MMTT. Romas became the Head Coach of the MMTT Elite Team in 2009.

[PRO100]

I think he gave up too soon. He was talking about how he was ready to be a full-time runner and fully committed to UO. But after he left, one of the things he cited that bothered him is that he wasn't able to train like he used to doing swimming and biking because he was trained like the rest of the team.


Yeah, I guess he was used to doing his own thing. Personally, I think he should have stuck with his parents. They were the ones that brought him to 8:29 and sub 4. He was improving every year, why change something that works? Much like what Alberto said about Galen not doing the marathon. If your improving a considerable amount every year, and finding a lot of success, don't change it up!

[PRO100]

http://verzbicas.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/verzbicas_family.jpg


I don't remember, was this the one from his 'freshman' year?

[herr]

http://verzbicas.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/verzbicas_family.jpg

RASA VERZBICKIENE
Run Coach, Elite Team
Rasa began running at 10 years old and ran for 17 years until she was 27. At 14 she became a member of the National Lithuanian Track and Field Team. She was the Lithuanian National Champion many times and held the Lithuanian national record twice in the 3000 meters. In 1984, Rasa was the Soviet Union college champion. In 1999 she received an Olympic certificate from Olympic president Antonio Samaranch to train elite athletes. In 2000, Rasa improved her coaching skills at the University of Physical Education. From 1987 to 2001, Rasa coached athletes 11-17 years old and many became Lithuanian champions. Rasa is now an MMTT Coach specializing in running.

His Father:
ROMAS BERTULIS
Head Coach, Elite Team
In 1979, while studying at Kaunas Physical Education Academy in Lithuania, Romas started working as a youth track and field coach. In 1980, he finished the academy and was working with athletes in their late teen years. From 1996 to 2001, he was the head coach of Lithuania’s national decathlon team – producing many national champions and podium finishers. From 2002 until today he has coached Lukas Verzbicas and helped MMTT. Romas became the Head Coach of the MMTT Elite Team in 2009.

I like Lukas and I wish him well in what he is doing. I bet he will be a world leading triathelete.

But I wouldn't exaggerate all of these credentials that his Mom and Dad have. They clearly know what they are doing and I bet they received good training at those Lithuanian academies. But Lithuania is about the same size as Chicago. A little over 3 million people. There is a reason why we don't hear too much about dominant Lithuanian athletes on the world stage--there are hardly any of them.

[Crystazul]

I like Lukas and I wish him well in what he is doing. I bet he will be a world leading triathelete.

But I wouldn't exaggerate all of these credentials that his Mom and Dad have. They clearly know what they are doing and I bet they received good training at those Lithuanian academies. But Lithuania is about the same size as Chicago. A little over 3 million people. There is a reason why we don't hear too much about dominant Lithuanian athletes on the world stage--there are hardly any of them.

Perhaps the better reason why we don't hear much about dominant Lithuanian athletes on the world stage is because Lithuania was part of the Soviet Union, unless Lithuanian athletes had some special circumstances? My cold war history is not great.

[jmac88]

Lukas just made the decision that was best for him. There is nothing wrong with that. If he felt that he could make the most of his talents in the tri, then so be it and quite whining.
most professional triathletes are in their late 20's to mid 30's so as a college kid he cud have run for Oregon for 4 years gotten a degree from a great school and then go into triathlon. What makes even less sense is that he can't make the olympic team this year if he wanted to A) because he doesn't have the racing experience to make it and B) because he is not a fully legalized citizen. He is also not going to start making good money for a long time because there is no real money in Olympic distance tri it's all in Ironman and the 70.3 distances.

[king99]

I have to agree with last post, would have been out of college at 22/23 with some huge marks

he always seemed to like the Tri's anyway, would not have hurt him to be a 13:15 5K guy or more even at 10K

Plus he ditched a team that could have made Big dance at NCAA's Xc, not done much but still left folks hanging when he had what was probably close to a combined big package at Oregon

never quite got the short sightedness of it all, plus he would have been a NIKE guy for life at something


Well, he did have a career a short fleeting one in distance running, it was spectacular, but appears well over

[herr]

The guy was junior world champion in the triathalon. That is pretty big. If an American runner was junior world champion at xc cross or on the track, that would be a pretty big incentive to stay in the sport and look to see what you could do as a senior.

It seems possible to think that Lukas probably felt conflicted about running and triathalon training. If you split your attention, you may do less well in both events than you would have if you concentrated on only one of them.

Think of the calculation:

On the track: He is the national record holder in under distance events in running and in the middle of the pack, internationally, in those events. How well he would do at 5k & 10 K relative to world competitors is unsure. He might be able to be as good as Rupp & Solinsky over the course of ten years. But even there, it is still a crap shoot--relative long shot-- that he comes into the running for international medals-- depending on injuries and coaching--etc

In the triathalon: he is the junior world champ. The international pool is relatively african-less. With the kind of improvement that you could conservatively predict for an athlete of Lukas's caliber, it is likely that as an adult he would be pretty quickly in the mix for international medals and championships. If he improves more than that, he could be an all-timer in the event.

I could see Lukas not really being able to put all of these pieces together until sometime in the fall. He didn't become world junior champion until after his HS track career was over and after he committed to Oregon. Coming off a big international win like that, it is easy to see that when he was confronted with the reality of having to step away from triathalon training and refocus himself on track exclusively, there may have been a bit of a let down.

It probably just hit him at a certain point: What is wrong with this picture?

It sucks for Oregon and for US distance running in general. But it is good for US triathaloning. And I guess I am willing to cut the kid some slack. Let him make some mistakes on the way to figuring out who he is.

Good people can struggle with self-discovery

[king99]

Not a bad thought

Does anyone know who the best U.S. Tri athlete is?

or top 3 without looking that up

Yeah I guess that plethora of Tri Athlete fans may, that must number about 1/10th of U.S. Track fans which is a small enough thing numbers wise

I do not think it is that big a market or that big a deal

In fact any 13:20 guy could move over and do this at a big level, if they thought there was more in it and they were maxed potential wise

Lukas is an average swimmer, a good cycler and I barely know this stuff and makes up big time in Juniors in the run

he was a sub 4:00 HS miler and an 8:29 two miler on relatively low mileage, let's say that high mileage was never going to be his thing, he was never hurt big that I know of.

Surely with his head in it, he would have gone 3:56 and 7:45-47 3K as a frosh, he was a LOT better than German was going in, with less injury prone issues.


Now, German has had his struggles, not every guy has that

german tracked like a world class guy quickly, if he does not hit that wall for whatever reasons by now he is running 13:12/3:36/27:20's by his Junior year? at under 22?

Makes teams ,big bonues, big money, alas that is the story you're telling, "what if" it went bad.. what if it went well


How much does the best guy make as a Tri guy?Maybe I am un informed

I do not know?

[HappyJack]

most professional triathletes are in their late 20's to mid 30's so as a college kid he cud have run for Oregon for 4 years gotten a degree from a great school and then go into triathlon. What makes even less sense is that he can't make the olympic team this year if he wanted to A) because he doesn't have the racing experience to make it and B) because he is not a fully legalized citizen. He is also not going to start making good money for a long time because there is no real money in Olympic distance tri it's all in Ironman and the 70.3 distances.

I think he has dual-citizenship and will try to compete for Lithuania.

[Ray Ray]

he could have run for Oregon for 4 years

Meanwhile...

gotten a degree from a great school

While not mutually exclusive, these two statements contradict each other if stated in the interest of utilizing your time in the most effective manner.

[Joe Lanzalotto]

The bottom line is that while he coulda, woulda he shouldnta if that's nto what he wanted to do. It's his life and if he didn't want to be the next great 5/10 guy but would rather do tris (even if in obscurity) that's his business.

Hell we see this ALL the time - guys who could be great sprinters but choose football (and get their legs ruined doing it). We don't object much because 99% of us love football.

Lukas may love tri; I suspect he really likes the variety of training and competing in three different disciplines.

[Ikenator]

Somewhere out on the interwebs there is a triathlon message board that is full of people rejoicing...

"Finally this kid is going to give up this silly track nonsense and focus on a real sport!!"

It's all a matter of perspective. Best of luck to him

[Crystazul]

He actually won his first major triathlon yesterday in Dallas.

Ran the 10k in an unknown time (error I assume).

http://www.triathlon.org/results/results/2012_dallas_itu_triathlon_pan_american_cup/7700/

[2togo]

He actually won his first major triathlon yesterday in Dallas.

http://www.triathlon.org/results/results/2012_dallas_itu_triathlon_pan_american_cup/7700/

Interesting note - The guy who finished 2nd to Lukas made the 2012 US OG Tri team. Too bad LV hadn't met the minimum requirements to be elgible for consideration for this year's team.

[Crystazul]

Won an ITU World Cup event today in Spain, beating the #4 and #5 ranked triathletes in the world (if interpreting their rankings as that is correct?). His run split was 30:55, winning by 27 seconds.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/breaking/chi-verzbicas-wins-triathlon-world-cup-debut-20120617,0,2437241.story

The article states he is not yet a USA citizen. I thought he already got his citizenship?