Alan Webb

[Umm]

is pissed!
http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/238142-2011-New-Balance-Indoor-Grand-Prix/video/449502-Alan-Webb-after-mile-at-2011-NB-Grand-Prix

Thoughts on video? If you compare his video to Manzano, Manzano just stays positive even though he had a much worse race, and Webb seems to be giving up

[Crystazul]

It seems like he is frustrated and disappointed that the race didn't go as well as he had planned and his training coming up to the race hasn't been as solid as he would have hoped... I don't see this as a big deal.

[kick'em.down]

Well, like he said he wasn't really ready to race and did it anyways, so there you go. Dude should eat a sandwich, he's looking hella skinny

[MacRuns]

One of Salazar's plans when he started coaching Webb was to cut down on the excess muscle he was carrying around, especially in his upper body. So yes, compared to the old Webb he may look a bit on the thin side but he didn't appear like he was too thin (at least to me). Also, he did just get over the flu and lost some training so maybe that explains it. I dunno.

I do feel for the guy, though. He's been working his way back into form for the past year or so and hasn't really had a chance to show his stuff. By the time he was good racing shape last year the summer season was over and, like he said in the interview, he didn't have a chance to race again for 3 or 4 months. Then when he's finally ready to go, he gets sick. That sucks, we can all relate to it in one way or another. I hope the rest of 2011 goes better for him and wish him better fortune in the upcoming months.

[Milesofsmiles15]

this video bothers me way more than the time from the race. if he had came onto the video and just said it wasn't his day and that he had a tough training week or was coming off a cold i would have felt fine about his time. This video shows he thinks something might actually be wrong.

[CoryC]

I do feel for the guy, though. He's been working his way back into form for the past year or so and hasn't really had a chance to show his stuff. By the time he was good racing shape last year the summer season was over and, like he said in the interview, he didn't have a chance to race again for 3 or 4 months. Then when he's finally ready to go, he gets sick. That sucks, we can all relate to it in one way or another. I hope the rest of 2011 goes better for him and wish him better fortune in the upcoming months.

This

[kingcoe]

He's just frustrated. At about 4:05 . . . "oh no, we can totally build from here . . . this isn't like . . . this isn't totally the end of the world . . . this is just me whining because I wanted to race but I wasn't really ready yet . . . probably gave up a little bit during the race mentally."

He grades his performance, is honest and now knows where he is physically. The real shame is just how long the interviewer kept him talking. Pretty painful.

He ran 4:00.70 after what he says has been very little training for the last month. I'm not ready to panic.

[Equinox2100]

He's just frustrated. At about 4:05 . . . "oh no, we can totally build from here . . . this isn't like . . . this isn't totally the end of the world . . . this is just me whining because I wanted to race but I wasn't really ready yet . . . probably gave up a little bit during the race mentally."

He grades his performance, is honest and now knows where he is physically. The real shame is just how long the interviewer kept him talking. Pretty painful.

He ran 4:00.70 after what he says has been very little training for the last month. I'm not ready to panic.

QFE on all of this.

If webb is running 4:00 in june, then I'll be more concerned. Let him get his workouts in, let him progress his own way, and trust in Salazar's training program. Webb has been fragile mentally, and putting him under a microscope every time he doesn't do 100% perfect probably isnt the best thing for him.

seriously, the letsrun goons are being the worst people in the world about this.

[RMMH91]

i would be more worried about leo manzano but he was cool about it and just blew off the race

[TrackCoach]

I don't think his performance was too big a deal; I think he was more upset than he needed to be. Letsrun was way over the top in how they captioned his interview, he was just upset with his performance.

Btw, in the years when El G ran his fastest times, he would start the season out running barely the equivalent of sub-4 in low key meets. One year El G ran a 1500 in 3:42 and can back 2 weeks later and ran 3:34. In El G's case and probably Leo's as well, when you come down from your HA training even though you are fit, you are not sharp yet.

[king99]

Leo ran a 2:22 solo TT three weeks ago, I am surprised he only ran 4:07

He really does run some , "I don;t seem to care" clunkers

and I am a huge fan of what he has done

[yifter]

Leo ran a 2:22 solo TT three weeks ago, I am surprised he only ran 4:07

He really does run some , "I don;t seem to care" clunkers

and I am a huge fan of what he has done

Of all Leo's tools, his ability to shake off bad races and not let one absolute sh!t race become two might be his greatest. Something Webb and many other pros could learn from. Leo, and Willis for that matter, seem to deal with adversity better than most.

[sum_bum]

If I was the AR Holder for 3 years I'd be pissed too

2 Things:

10 years ago at the same meet he ran 3:59, then four months later he ran 3:53. How do you think that makes you feel? I feel bad for this guy. Bad timing on his part. Glad to see he's getting all fired up. He may be over these tuneup races and he wants immediate results, but like he said, you gotta put in the work. These races are included in that body of work.

Also he is looking pretty gaunt. I agree with cutting back on some muscle, and I'm sure he's healthy but you can really tell.

[Zat0pek]

He's just frustrated. At about 4:05 . . . "oh no, we can totally build from here . . . this isn't like . . . this isn't totally the end of the world . . . this is just me whining because I wanted to race but I wasn't really ready yet . . . probably gave up a little bit during the race mentally."

He grades his performance, is honest and now knows where he is physically. The real shame is just how long the interviewer kept him talking. Pretty painful.

He ran 4:00.70 after what he says has been very little training for the last month. I'm not ready to panic.

Bingo.

I'm not making excuses and I'm not a Webb apologist. But the comparison of his comments to Leo's right now is way off the mark. Leo is coming off his best year ever; Webb is coming off his worst year ever. Leo was ranked 6th in the world, PRd and had great consistency when it counted, including an average of his top five marks of 3:33.9. OF COURSE Leo is more confident than Webb right now. Webb is scrapping and clawing to stay healthy and get back to the top of the mountain. Leo IS healthy and at the top of the mountain. Let's see how positive Leo is immediately after a disappointing race after being, yet again, sick and injured after two freakin' years of injuries. Success breeds success, people, and Webb is trying to cobble some together right now.

Look, there is no doubt that Webb may be a little fragile emotionally. I dug up a thread I started after the 2007 Millrose meet from the old Dyestat board. Webb made what I thought was a rather astonishing quote about losing his composure. Here's a link to that thread, which includes that quote: http://www.talk.dyestat.com/showthread.php?t=51392 Of course, Webb went on to have his greatest year ever in 2007 after that meet and was virtually unbeatable until the WCs. But again, he dinged his hammy (I think that was the issue, if my memory is correct) going in to the WCs.

The more I see and hear of Webb, the more he reminds me very much of my college roommate/teammate. Hugely talented guy, a phenomenally hard worker but also a very intense personality. They are even very similar physically. My roommate was a beast in the weight room. He weighed 138 and could bench 220 (I always said it was because he had shorter arms than me and didn't have to move it nearly as far).

Like Webb, he was also capable of huge highs but also some crushing lows. But the key is that the crushing lows were always the direct result of prolonged periods of injuries or other setbacks. The challenge for our coach (and the rest of us, too) was keeping the reins on him in training (and emotionally) so he'd stay healthy, then only turning him completely loose in all senses when it really counted. He also had a weak physical link but instead of his hammys like Webb, it was his foot; his metatarsal, to be exact. That metatarsal governed his mileage, his quality, everything. But we eventually found the right balance and he did great once we did.

Like it is for a lot of people, my roommate's greatest strength (his intensity) could also be his greatest weakness. I saw him once fix his eyes on the back of a really good Kenyan at the conference 10,000 and just mow him down with a 1:56 final 800. The guy was spitting fire and probably could have taken anybody in the country that night at the NCAA DI level. I also saw him put his fist right through the wall after getting the news about yet another stress fracture after a series of injuries over the previous six months.

It's always easy to blame a guys head, and sometimes that's exactly the problem. But I'd bet my house - literally - that if Webb could put together 8-12 months of training uninterrupted by significant injuries or illnesses and start racing regularly, his head wouldn't be an issue. The more I look at the big picture of his career arc, the more I see that his head follows his body more often than the other way around. Just remember Millrose in '07 (which was all mental), and what happened in the six months after that. Webb laid a big egg then and he wasn't even coming off of injury or illness like he is here. He looks good, and the reports are he had a good fall, and that training won't just disappear. We're still 4-5 months away from the start of Money Time. Patience and steadfastness are the keys for Webb.

[10mexicans]

what a herb

[Zat0pek]

Leo ran a 2:22 solo TT three weeks ago, I am surprised he only ran 4:07

He really does run some , "I don;t seem to care" clunkers

and I am a huge fan of what he has done

I thought so too, king, until I looked up the mile equivalent of a 2:22.5 kilo (I always use the mid-point of the time if I don't know it exactly; we don't know if this 2:22.0 or 2:22.99). The IAAF Table equivalent is only 4:04.5, and the Purdy is about 4:03.7 (avg. is 4:04.1) so he really wasn't very far off of what should be expected based on that TT.

Everybody lays an egg once in a while, but I agree with you that the eggs Leo lays do seem to be bigger than most (like Prefontaine last summer).

The good news is that I can't recall him ever laying an egg when it mattered most (championships, peak Euro season, etc.). When the spotlight's on, so is Leo usually, which is why he made the WC finals in '09 and was ranked 6th in the world last year. That's one of the things I really, really like about the guy in addition to his tactical savvy; he runs his best when it counts that most.

It looks to me like he's a guy who won't back off his training, no matter what, until a certain point. Lots of guys are immersed in strength work this time of year and nowhere nearing race ready for the mile. But even then, a 3:32 guy can usually back off a few days, rest a little and run an unembarrassing indoor opener (3:58-4:02-ish). And with a couple of more races, it's not hard for those guys to get down to 3:55-ish. Steve Scott used to say that in his prime, he could run a sub-four cold at any point in his training cycle if he just backed off a couple of days, even during the periods of his highest mileage and lowest quality. I think that's true of most of the guys at that level.

But if Leo skips the rest, I can see that 4-ish opener (or the 4:04 equivalent of his TT) becoming a 4:07 opener pretty easily. I'm also betting that the kilo TT was about the only thing he did to "sharpen" for this race. Sometimes guys race this time of year just because they're bored of the training grind with the major races still months away. They could care less what the results are; they just want to break up the monotony of the miles and the grind this time of year. Leo's reaction after the race seems to me like he might be in that category. It's easy to not be upset by a race result if you're treating it like a diversion.

Just one more reason why we can't really learn much from race results this time of year. Some guys treat a meet like BIG like a golden opportunity to break through to the next level against a quality field (Brown and Verzbicas), some treat it like a diversion (Leo?), some treat it like a fitness test or sharpener for something later (Willis and others), and some are just chomping at the bit to race again coming off of injury (Webb). Guys are just all over the board in their preparation and racing emphasis this time of year.

[orthostice]

Dude should eat a sandwich, he's looking hella skinny

Levothyroxine's one helluva drug.

10 years ago at the same meet he ran 3:59, then four months later he ran 3:53.

Webb broke 4:00 indoors for the first time at the Armory.

Webb is coming off his worst year ever.

He ran 3:36 last year on a huge upswing.
2003 and even 2006 were much worse. One could also argue for the inclusion of 2009.


Look, there is no doubt that Webb may be a little fragile emotionally. I dug up a thread I started after the 2007 Millrose meet from the old Dyestat board. Webb made what I thought was a rather astonishing quote about losing his composure. Here's a link to that thread, which includes that quote: http://www.talk.dyestat.com/showthread.php?t=51392 Of course, Webb went on to have his greatest year ever in 2007 after that meet and was virtually unbeatable until the WCs.

...

It's always easy to blame a guys head, and sometimes that's exactly the problem. But I'd bet my house - literally - that if Webb could put together 8-12 months of training uninterrupted by significant injuries or illnesses and start racing regularly, his head wouldn't be an issue. The more I look at the big picture of his career arc, the more I see that his head follows his body more often than the other way around. Just remember Millrose in '07 (which was all mental), and what happened in the six months after that. Webb laid a big egg then and he wasn't even coming off of injury or illness like he is here.

You contradict yourself by saying that Webb's head follows his legs, then pointing out Millrose '07 - which was a psychological meltdown totally independent of any physical injury.

That fratboytrack interview was uncomfortable to watch, but it did help one person - Scott Raczko. Over the years he's received a lot of flak for never having Webb ready at the right time, getting him hurt, etc. ... but how are you supposed to deal with someone that immature and irrational?

One problem with guys that are way too intense is that they often don't get it right on the day. Forget missing out on a medal at Worlds because you lost it and ran 12.1 from 800-900 or something - if Webb feels less than great with 250 to go at USAs, sees Wheating drawing away, and feels guys on his shoulder, confirms that fact visually on the big screen, and blows a gasket ... he's not even going to be on the plane.

[Show'EmTheRopes]

10 years ago at the same meet he ran 3:59, then four months later he ran 3:53.

I see 4 months down the road, Webb running faster than 3:53. He ran 4:00.7 here, remember this is an opener for him, so although he's upset with the time, it's really not as bad of an opener as he's making it seem.

If I was him, I'd be more upset that I lost to Leer and Myers, more-so than the time itself. He wants to be tops in the country again, and losing to guys like Myers and Leer surely will not put him anywhere near the top 3 in the USA. It probably won't even be close to the top 5. He needs to get his head into racing the competition again, and not blow everything out of proportion like it seems.

We already know the Salazar is using this indoor season as a huge training block for Webb (who I expect to see run some lower distances like 500's and maybe an 800 here-or-there). Now I kind of get the vibe that Webb wants the immediate success and is pissed from this race, but he needs to relax and not be so uptight or things will only get worse and this season will be full of disappointments and "could have been's".. Granted he's had some better openers, but he's not nearly close to his 3:46.9 (yet). He needs to put things in perspective and realize he's not tops right now, and play it smart. The only way he's going to accomplish anything great this year is if he plays it smart.

[Equinox2100]

he should've ****ing stayed at michigan.

[2togo]

I don't know that I totally buy the whole Alan Webb is mentally fragile thing. I don't think you can run 3:46 and be fragile minded in the least. I think some are mistaking shaken confidence or even disappointment with mental fragility and there is a big difference.

Furthermore, the whole Flotrack interview has been blown way out of proportion IMO and I don't think it communicates anything at all about future performances. To be quite honest, my initial reaction to Leo's interview (which has had rave reviews and probably rightly so) was that his body language communicated he was displeased. I thought he was a little short with the interviewer and it seemed like he wanted the interview to be over pretty quick. Either way I don't think it is unfair to contrast Leo's interview with Webb, but from my perspective I think it needs to be framed against the greater context here.

[Zat0pek]

He ran 3:36 last year on a huge upswing.
2003 and even 2006 were much worse. One could also argue for the inclusion of 2009.

True. And, of course, he was hurt each of those years

You contradict yourself by saying that Webb's head follows his legs, then pointing out Millrose '07 - which was a psychological meltdown totally independent of any physical injury.

Yeah, shoulda been more clear. The purpose of the Millrose example was to confirm that Webb is flighty at the least. The second and separate point is/was that when he's healthy, he's usually a lot less flighty, Millrose notwithstanding, or maybe it's just that he then succeeds in spite of the flightiness.

Good to see you back on the boards. Been awhile.

[king99]

He was probably banned YET again!!:D

Should be pretty active with UW meet and plenty of observations to make coming up!!:D

[kingcoe]

So Webb runs 7:51 and change. Any thoughts?

Personally I was surprised to see them throw him in a race again so soon.

This seems like a solid time especially taking into consideration he had just struggled a bit to run 4:00 for the mile.

I didn't see the race, anybody know how it played out?

[king99]

This was my interpretation, and yes I was also surprised that he teed it up again this week, after last.

I really liked that, thsi was a field of tough guys no matter how old theye are, at the in between distance of 3K.

You have milers moving up who can hadle this easlity i.e. Garret Heath and 5K and longer who can move down to this as well.

I think he really tried to win and tried hard , actually he kind of went first after the leader late in the race, he kind of ran out of gas about 70M from home and got passed late by some other hard and fast chargers, all good guys too.

You know, Fernandez ran 6 seconds slower here in good position throughout , than he did as a frosh and no one has said much about that.

There were plenty of guys that he used to be ahead of at this distance that beat him, as well.

I liked that Webb got back up on the horse, that he competed hard and late as well. He did miss a bit of training , German now has plenty of time to get right and is still not back near where he was either.

[TeamOrange]

Surprised he raced so soon but I have to ask why race when you aren't 100% healthy? It not like it is USAs or a major meet meet like that.

http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/238137-Flotrack-Husky-Classic-2011/video/457494-Alan-Webb-after-3k-at-2011-Flotrack-Husky-Classic

I have to say Webb gives the worst/most awkward interviews

[orthostice]

This was my interpretation, and yes I was also surprised that he teed it up again this week, after last.

I really liked that, thsi was a field of tough guys no matter how old theye are, at the in between distance of 3K.

You have milers moving up who can hadle this easlity i.e. Garret Heath and 5K and longer who can move down to this as well.

I think he really tried to win and tried hard , actually he kind of went first after the leader late in the race, he kind of ran out of gas about 70M from home and got passed late by some other hard and fast chargers, all good guys too.

You know, Fernandez ran 6 seconds slower here in good position throughout , than he did as a frosh and no one has said much about that.

There were plenty of guys that he used to be ahead of at this distance that beat him, as well.

I liked that Webb got back up on the horse, that he competed hard and late as well. He did miss a bit of training , German now has plenty of time to get right and is still not back near where he was either.

I agree with the move to race again right away. The alternative is to let Webb stew about it and destroy himself in training for another couple months.

Regarding Fernandez, I don't have him or Dave Smith pegged as the sharpest tools in the shed, so I'm not surprised the road has been bumpy. Also, the public's expectations of this guy were (and continue to be) totally out of touch with reality, so there's really no way to avoid disappointment under those conditions.
If German Fernandez is the second coming, what does that make Colton Tully-Doyle?

Surprised he raced so soon but I have to ask why race when you aren't 100% healthy? It not like it is USAs or a major meet meet like that.

http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/238137-Flotrack-Husky-Classic-2011/video/457494-Alan-Webb-after-3k-at-2011-Flotrack-Husky-Classic

I have to say Webb gives the worst/most awkward interviews

That interview was Floreani-esque, and I mean that in the worst possible way. Where do they find these guys?

[KevinM]

Surprised he raced so soon but I have to ask why race when you aren't 100% healthy? It not like it is USAs or a major meet meet like that.

There's a difference between 100% healthy and 100% fit. Seems like he may well be the former, but not the latter (due to time missed). For a guy who seems to have a history (including 7 days ago) of putting way too much stock in every race, getting back on the horse again was probably the best thing he could do.

http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/238137-Flotrack-Husky-Classic-2011/video/457494-Alan-Webb-after-3k-at-2011-Flotrack-Husky-Classic

I have to say Webb gives the worst/most awkward interviews

Webb looked like Charlie Rose in comparison to the gum chomping Flotrack guy next to him.

[Healyrunner]

http://www.runnerspace.com/eprofile.php?do=photos&pg=1&event_id=590&folder_id=recent&photo_id=122940&offset=7&year=2011#photo

What singlet was webb wearing?

[Crystazul]

Surprised he raced so soon but I have to ask why race when you aren't 100% healthy? It not like it is USAs or a major meet meet like that.

http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/238137-Flotrack-Husky-Classic-2011/video/457494-Alan-Webb-after-3k-at-2011-Flotrack-Husky-Classic

I have to say Webb gives the worst/most awkward interviews

lol I will admit that must have been some delicious gum for him to keep it in while interviewing Alan Webb.

[squirtle]

Surprised he raced so soon but I have to ask why race when you aren't 100% healthy? It not like it is USAs or a major meet meet like that.

I said, "German, if you wanna be 100% or feel absolutely perfect every time you race, you're never gonna race." And that's reality, you know, in our sport. You gotta realize that, you know. He loves basketball. I said, "Kobe Bryant plays hurt." He loves Kobe Bryant. I said, "Kobe Bryant plays hurt. And on our own basketball team, Byron Eaton plays hurt. He's not 100% when he plays a lot of times, but he goes out there and gives it his best." I said, "We've gotta have the same mentality in our sport." You can't say, "I'm a little dinged up here, I'm a little dinged up there, I can't do it, I haven't trained as much as I want to." You know, every sport has to deal with setbacks and it's how you deal with those things that defines you, not how you do when you're 100%.

Read more: http://www.letsrun.com/2009/smith0407.php#ixzz1DsUbLoj1


Couldn't help but think of that.

[orthostice]

http://www.runnerspace.com/eprofile.php?do=photos&pg=1&event_id=590&folder_id=recent&photo_id=122940&offset=7&year=2011#photo

What singlet was webb wearing?

Salazar's people apparently have black kit now. Wouldn't want to mix them up with Schumacher's guys (who seem to be the only entity in the OTClusterf*ck consistently doing the business) or OTC-Eugene, I guess.

http://www.runblogrun.com/images/Goucher_Kara_AzRnR11.Jpg

Couldn't find a photo, but Yoder Begley had a similar getup on yesterday.

[Healyrunner]

Thanks that's a cool logo they have