Summer Training

[Zizzyfizzle]

What's everyone got planned for summer training?

I'm currently taking it easy/light tempos and lifting while recovering from 2 torn meniscuses (menisci?) that I had to run through during outdoor.

But after that I'm going to do longer stuff because I'm a 400 runner. Things like 500's, 300's, 3-5 mile runs, 200 tempos, plyos a couple times a week. I'm also going to lift alot, lots of power lifting (squats, deadlift, bench) and just getting my strength up in general.




Discuss.

[Michael Johnson]

Going into my senior year, doing workouts with some college sophomores that I'm friends with starting pretty soon. Not sure what my friend has planned but probably a lot of longer stuff since we're all 400 runners, no reason to do any pure speed work months before the season and risk injury.

I'm mostly focusing on lifting though, since I'm always the smallest guy in my heat (5'10", 150). A lot of powerlifting to gain muscle and explosiveness, bench, cleans, squats etc.

The problem is that I run XC too, and I don't want to quit the team because I've done it every year and I'm a captain. Coach wants me to keep doing sprinting work during the season though, so I won't lose my speed. I'll continue to run things like 300s and 600s and lift through XC.

Hoping to break 50, current PR is 51.91 FAT

[SprintsFTW19]

Currently focusing my training on the fact I'll be running a 5k on July 24th. After that I'll be focusing my lifting back on power and doing long -> short sprint-work for god knows how long, as I don't know if I want to run Indoor for RIT. Nothing against RIT, I just really dislike indoor track.

[GoingsGone]

My situation is odd, I'll be competing unattached as a college freshman. Right now I'm prolonging my season for a few meets this summer. After those are done I'll take 2 weeks off and I'm not sure how I'll attack the rest of the summer..

It's one of two choices, focus a lot on acceleration/strength. Or more tempo stuff(like I did last year..)

[BlackIrish]

Ran 12.5, 25.5, and long jumped 16'9 at a local track meet, three more meets go.

Sub 12, sub 24, and 19'0 are my current goals.

Probably won't do those exact 3 events til the last meet though.

[PenultimateStep]

Basically lifting full body every other day. Doing some sort of sprint and plyometrics combination on the non-lifting days. Trying to do a 4-5 mile run every day.

Power, power, power, with a little general fitness mixed in is the way to go in the off season.

[runnerdude40]

A lot of Olympic lifts (power cleans, squats, dead lifts, etc.) and a bunch of ab, lower back, and hip strengthening exercises.

In terms of running, I'm doing a long to short training plan. I've currently been doing a lot of 600s, 500s, 450s, 300s, and tempo 200s. I also do plyos once a week. Also some distance running (~2-4 mi.) on the weekends. Not doing cross country for the first time so this summer should be fun.

Hoping to run 51s indoor (my outdoor PB was from this past season at 53.85 FAT).

[PenultimateStep]

A lot of Olympic lifts (power cleans, squats, dead lifts, etc.) and a bunch of ab, lower back, and hip strengthening exercises.

In terms of running, I'm doing a long to short training plan. I've currently been doing a lot of 600s, 500s, 450s, 300s, and tempo 200s. I also do plyos once a week. Also some distance running (~2-4 mi.) on the weekends. Not doing cross country for the first time so this summer should be fun.

Hoping to run 51s indoor (my outdoor PB was from this past season at 53.85 FAT).

Sounds like a solid plan. What did you run last year indoors? I tend to not to make my goals by comparing my outdoor PR to my indoor times. I am comparatively better at outdoor 400s than indoor ones by a lot. I can't run a 400 for a break line 150m in. I am a closer.

[runnerdude40]

Sounds like a solid plan. What did you run last year indoors? I tend to not to make my goals by comparing my outdoor PR to my indoor times. I am comparatively better at outdoor 400s than indoor ones by a lot. I can't run a 400 for a break line 150m in. I am a closer.

I was hurt last year indoors. Hurt both my IT bands in both legs. Was out for 3 months and had to do physical therapy and the whole deal. It was a pain in the ass.

I'm actually a similar runner in that I am also a very good closer, but the running to break line helps me get out fast (something I have a trouble with), so I try to beat everyone to the break knowing they can't get around me.

In terms of goals, 51s is my big goal, but I'd be more than happy with a 52s. I'd at least like to PB indoors this winter or run what I ran the previous outdoor year.

[Zizzyfizzle]

I usually try to run atleast what I did during outdoor the previous year, if not be able to cut some time off. This is (hopefully) going to be year that I will not have a major injury, I've been getting in some really solid training so far this summer (slacked a little on the lifting). I'd be very happy if I was able to split a 47.x and run something in the 48.5 range in the open. During outdoor I ran 48.66 off of only 4+ monthes of training (torn ACL/meniscus Oct-Dec)

[GoingsGone]

Man if I ran my outdoor PR indoors i would be estatic!

indoor 400- 51.35
outdoor 400-49.9

I'm taking time off from a VERY long season now, been working hard from beginning of last school year, so my body is wrecked.

[rcs1113]

I think most 400 runners use the off season to build up strength through a combination of long runs, longer interval workouts, hills and lifting with some occasional speed work thrown in but you can definitely target the areas you need to work on most. For example since you think you're more of a 400/800 guy and probably have pretty good strength already from doing longer distances, I would focus more on plyos, power lifting and short sprints to increase your turnover.

Bringing from promo spike thread.
What kinda of lifting should I be doing? I'm kinda scared to work on my legs because I dont want them to be too bulky but Im open to any help I can get. I'm looking to be more of the Jeremy Wariner body type not super huge. (400/800 type)

If you could give me a sample schedule or something you had for general training and/or lifting I would be ecstatic. And as for mpw? Should I max out at like 30mpw or so? I don't want to thin out and that happens really easy for me plus the whole high mileage thing.

Last year after injury for 3 months my coach threw me in a 4x4 and I split a 54.x. I dont know what I should set my goal as, I would really want to go under 50 but I dunno if thats unreasonable. Should I try for like a 50 split in open and maybe a sub 50 in a relay?

[Zizzyfizzle]

I'm thinking no where near 30 mpw, I don't really know how much all the tempos and such would add up to, but I'd say if you're trying to strictly be a 400 runner (who also runs the 800), you should probably do a long run of MAYBE 6 or 7 miles, but it's on that long cause you want to run the 8.

I would focus more on longer tempo type things, such as 5x600, or 4x800, maybe 10x300 for a little faster type things. There's really no point in doing speed work at this time, unless you keep doing one or two speed workouts every week til the season, it's not going to help.

Make sure to lift (squats, hang clean, bench, deadlift) and do plyos, those are nearly as important as running

[Colonials400]

Last year after injury for 3 months my coach threw me in a 4x4 and I split a 54.x. I dont know what I should set my goal as, I would really want to go under 50 but I dunno if thats unreasonable. Should I try for like a 50 split in open and maybe a sub 50 in a relay?

My experience with the 400 has been that the more times you run it you learn what it feels like and how to run it and that alone lets you drop some time. I had a kid on my team last spring that was new to track and he started out running about 55 flat and without really training his butt off got slightly faster throughout the season and eventually got down to 51.66 at the D1 state meet. For you I would say sub 50 is a bit ambitious but look to improve each meet and run 51.low in the open or sub 51 in a relay at the end of the season.

[rcs1113]

I'm thinking no where near 30 mpw, I don't really know how much all the tempos and such would add up to, but I'd say if you're trying to strictly be a 400 runner (who also runs the 800), you should probably do a long run of MAYBE 6 or 7 miles, but it's on that long cause you want to run the 8.

I would focus more on longer tempo type things, such as 5x600, or 4x800, maybe 10x300 for a little faster type things. There's really no point in doing speed work at this time, unless you keep doing one or two speed workouts every week til the season, it's not going to help.

Make sure to lift (squats, hang clean, bench, deadlift) and do plyos, those are nearly as important as running

Thanks very much. My leg is kinda messed up right now so I think I need to stay out of the plyos and hang clean let alone running. I was thinking I should lift with the football team in a few weeks because they do a lot of this stuff and they go pretty hard. Probably good right?

My experience with the 400 has been that the more times you run it you learn what it feels like and how to run it and that alone lets you drop some time. I had a kid on my team last spring that was new to track and he started out running about 55 flat and without really training his butt off got slightly faster throughout the season and eventually got down to 51.66 at the D1 state meet. For you I would say sub 50 is a bit ambitious but look to improve each meet and run 51.low in the open or sub 51 in a relay at the end of the season.

Thanks for the info. I probably would be happy with a low 51, that could lead to sub 50 goal my senior year.

[The_Conductor]

Thanks very much. My leg is kinda messed up right now so I think I need to stay out of the plyos and hang clean let alone running. I was thinking I should lift with the football team in a few weeks because they do a lot of this stuff and they go pretty hard. Probably good right?

Thanks for the info. I probably would be happy with a low 51, that could lead to sub 50 goal my senior year.

1. What is wrong with your leg?
2. What year are you this year? (I assume junior)

[rcs1113]

1. What is wrong with your leg?
2. What year are you this year? (I assume junior)

1. Past February I got shin splints, ran on it for a month, developed into a stress reaction, started up running again in mid June, started acting up again in early July, now Im back in the boot.

2. And yes, I'm gonna be a junior

[Zizzyfizzle]

Right now I'm not running either (torn meniscus, bursitis/tendinitis), but you can still stay in really good shape without running. I'm doing bike tempos (ex: 10x40sec hard/20 sec easy) and also rowing. You can still work on upper body strength which is still important, just try to take shorter rest so you won't get as bulky.

[rcs1113]

Right now I'm not running either (torn meniscus, bursitis/tendinitis), but you can still stay in really good shape without running. I'm doing bike tempos (ex: 10x40sec hard/20 sec easy) and also rowing. You can still work on upper body strength which is still important, just try to take shorter rest so you won't get as bulky.

Yea, i've been lifting a lot lately. I just want to get up to about 165-70 pounds at 6'0. Im 155 right now and toned out crazy but I can bench 185. My short term goal is to get my bench up to 200, but if I'm 170 and still almost all muscle my bench will probably be in 230 range. I still have distance legs so I need to work a lot on them. As of today; I can bench more than I can squat. Pretty pathetic.

As for your bike tempos and rowing: how long do you go for?

And should I take creatine? I have taken it in the past so I know what to do and it produced amazing results, but I dont know when I should/should I be on it for a long time. I was thinking of starting up again around september.

[Zizzyfizzle]

For the tempos, the possibilities are about as endless as your imagination. Try to change it up alot so it doesn't get monotonous, so one day you could warm up on the bike for 10 minutes increasing the level every couple minutes, then you could hop on the rower and do 15x30 sec on 35 spm (strokes per minute) with 30sec of 10-15spm rest inbetween.

Today I tried the ellipitical for the second time ever, those 10 minutes were probably some of the worst of my life, I absolutely hate that thing. But atleast for me, the key to consistency during the summer is variety, I'd say just try to do something of relatively high quality work 5 or 6 days a week.


As for the creatine, I'm not really to up-to-date on the research, but I know it makes people bulk up alot, which it does by retaining water in the muscles. But if it works for you, then I'd say keep doing it :D

[The_Conductor]

Be careful with the reaction. I'm currently recovering from a stress fracture in my first metatarsal that I ran on from December (first feeling pain) to May (almost unable to walk). Definitely don't do something stupid like that.

I'm biking as well right now in addition to my physical therapy. I haven't started into tempo work yet, but I'm planning on it next week.

Yea, i've been lifting a lot lately. I just want to get up to about 165-70 pounds at 6'0. Im 155 right now and toned out crazy but I can bench 185. My short term goal is to get my bench up to 200, but if I'm 170 and still almost all muscle my bench will probably be in 230 range. I still have distance legs so I need to work a lot on them. As of today; I can bench more than I can squat. Pretty pathetic.

As for your bike tempos and rowing: how long do you go for?

And should I take creatine? I have taken it in the past so I know what to do and it produced amazing results, but I dont know when I should/should I be on it for a long time. I was thinking of starting up again around september.

As far as the lifting goes, don't go too crazy over it. The upper body is important, but you also need to maintain mobility. I find that the best exercises for sprinters don't even require weights. Pull-ups (all three grips) target the muscles that drive the arms incredibly effectively. Jump push-ups are also really good and maintain explosiveness in the arms. You may be able to build all this muscle mass and be strong, but if you can't use that strength in a constructive manner, it doesn't matter.

Don't take creatine. If you're a 400 runner, you don't need to be huge. From what I know, most of the muscle mass is just water--extra weight. Regarding the issue of weight, don't try to put on or take off any. Just let your body figure out what it's ideal racing weight is. I'm 5'8" and 170 pounds, which is generally considered too heavy for my height. However, it's what works, and the only way I can shed weight is if I stop exercising.

[runnerdude40]

Don't take creatine. If you're a 400 runner, you don't need to be huge. From what I know, most of the muscle mass is just water--extra weight. Regarding the issue of weight, don't try to put on or take off any. Just let your body figure out what it's ideal racing weight is. I'm 5'8" and 170 pounds, which is generally considered too heavy for my height. However, it's what works, and the only way I can shed weight is if I stop exercising.

QFE. There's no need to be trying to bulk up, in most cases it can and will slow you down.

Also, while a big chest looks nice, it's not ideal. Just imagine trying to run with a ten pound weight on your chest, it's gunna slow you down. If look at most sprinters like Gay and Bolt, they relatively small chests, but ripped back, arms, and shoulders, the muscles that drive the arms efficiently.

[rcs1113]

Be careful with the reaction. I'm currently recovering from a stress fracture in my first metatarsal that I ran on from December (first feeling pain) to May (almost unable to walk). Definitely don't do something stupid like that.

I'm biking as well right now in addition to my physical therapy. I haven't started into tempo work yet, but I'm planning on it next week.



As far as the lifting goes, don't go too crazy over it. The upper body is important, but you also need to maintain mobility. I find that the best exercises for sprinters don't even require weights. Pull-ups (all three grips) target the muscles that drive the arms incredibly effectively. Jump push-ups are also really good and maintain explosiveness in the arms. You may be able to build all this muscle mass and be strong, but if you can't use that strength in a constructive manner, it doesn't matter.

Don't take creatine. If you're a 400 runner, you don't need to be huge. From what I know, most of the muscle mass is just water--extra weight. Regarding the issue of weight, don't try to put on or take off any. Just let your body figure out what it's ideal racing weight is. I'm 5'8" and 170 pounds, which is generally considered too heavy for my height. However, it's what works, and the only way I can shed weight is if I stop exercising.
Okay on the creatine, and what are all three grips? Pull up, curl up, wide grip?
QFE. There's no need to be trying to bulk up, in most cases it can and will slow you down.

Also, while a big chest looks nice, it's not ideal. Just imagine trying to run with a ten pound weight on your chest, it's gunna slow you down. If look at most sprinters like Gay and Bolt, they relatively small chests, but ripped back, arms, and shoulders, the muscles that drive the arms efficiently.

Never would of thought of that, thank you. Is there a book like jack daniels for sprinting? I just wanna try to do everything right from the start.

And what lifts should I focus on then? Squat, hang clean, little bit of bench, deadlift, I mean should I just look up on google "lifts that build muscle in the back, arms, shoulders, etc?

[The_Conductor]

Okay on the creatine, and what are all three grips? Pull up, curl up, wide grip?


Never would of thought of that, thank you. Is there a book like jack daniels for sprinting? I just wanna try to do everything right from the start.

And what lifts should I focus on then? Squat, hang clean, little bit of bench, deadlift, I mean should I just look up on google "lifts that build muscle in the back, arms, shoulders, etc?

Neutral, close, and wide. Chin-ups are good too but I don't find they target the same muscles. I wouldn't be doing too much lower body lifting right now because of your shin. Let that heal. You aren't going to be competing until December, and there aren't any important meets until then end of January, so getting healthy is more important than building leg strength. When you do start doing leg lifts, do Olympic lifts. I like to throw jumps into my Olympic lifts because it creates more explosiveness.

[rcs1113]

Okay so It's been a while, but I want to start getting in good shape. My shin isnt completely healed so I think Im gonna wait til about september until i do leg lifts. I want to lift hard 3-4 times a week. What should I do which days?
I was think maybe(until My leg is better)
Monday: Shoulders and Triceps
Wednesday: Biceps and forums
Friday: Back and the leg exercises that wont mess up my shin(quad extension, ham curl)

And core and explosive medicine ball throws each day.
Anyone have any opinions on this, or if I should do the stuff the muscles in some other combination.

And swimming on the days in between.

Thanks.

[Zizzyfizzle]

You don't really need to do those arm exercises (except for the ladies), they'll just weigh you down in the longer events.

A good way that I was getting a full body workout when I wasn't running earlier in the summer was by using the indoor rower. You utilize the entire body for cardio instead of just the legs like most machines do (bike, stair climber, etc...) You can do tempos and everything on there.



I'm not sure how bad your shins are, but a pretty good 400/long hurdler on my team (49.2 open/53.x in the hurdles) had stress fractures in both his legs the past year, and he was running 3/4 days a week, and biking the rest of the days. He would squat and power clean and do all the important lifts, so I'd think you should be fine doing it as long as it does aggrevate it

[Michael Johnson]

You don't really need to do those arm exercises (except for the ladies), they'll just weigh you down in the longer events.

A good way that I was getting a full body workout when I wasn't running earlier in the summer was by using the indoor rower. You utilize the entire body for cardio instead of just the legs like most machines do (bike, stair climber, etc...) You can do tempos and everything on there.



I'm not sure how bad your shins are, but a pretty good 400/long hurdler on my team (49.2 open/53.x in the hurdles) had stress fractures in both his legs the past year, and he was running 3/4 days a week, and biking the rest of the days. He would squat and power clean and do all the important lifts, so I'd think you should be fine doing it as long as it does aggrevate it

Ok, I'm confused now. Before someone commented saying that a big/strong chest is just extra weight and that sprinters should focus on their arms, and now you said that you shouldn't lift arms too much. So as a 400 runner, what should I really do in the weight room?

[Zizzyfizzle]

Ok, I'm confused now. Before someone commented saying that a big/strong chest is just extra weight and that sprinters should focus on their arms, and now you said that you shouldn't lift arms too much. So as a 400 runner, what should I really do in the weight room?

Lifting chest and lifting arms are two completely different things.

Basically as a 400 runner you want to be as strong as possible without any of the unnecessary bulk, so taking something like creatine seems counterproductive

[Michael Johnson]

Lifting chest and lifting arms are two completely different things.

Basically as a 400 runner you want to be as strong as possible without any of the unnecessary bulk, so taking something like creatine seems counterproductive

oh yeah I know what you're talking about, don't take anything like creatine anyways

I'm in a phase of rapidly increasing strength right now because I've barely lifted before this summer, I'll make sure to stop before it starts to hurt me more than help me.

Last season I was ~150 pounds, now I'm 155, hoping to be up to 160ish for racing weight in december

[SprintsFTW19]

raawr i love being back in the gym. even without any heavy weights or anything my leg strength seems to be better than ever, as i topped out at 840lbs in the 40 degree leg press yesterday. right now im really just focusing on power and explosiveness for my lower body and trying to maintain strength while losing a lot of mass in my upper. its frustrating (from a running standpoint) how easily i put on weight on my chest and shoulders when i lift weights, and I can feel it when i'm too heavy up top running.