Upcoming Changes To Sunken Meadow Course

[10mexicans]

My dad was telling me today about how in (3-4) years the moat will be changing slightly. At the moment, the water is stagnant and creates a pungent (sp?) smell. Near the far east side of the moat (about the 4600) meter mark, where there is sand...will be taken down along with the rocks near it..in place will be an adjustable damn for raising and lowering water levels and instead of sand will be a 120 foot freespan bridge...And the water will be freeflowing
I was told that the problem with this is, that now how there is a smooth curve along there, it will be a complete 90 degree turn for the runners. Originally the town wanted itto be made out of Ipe? but he changed it to pine or something so the runners wouldnt lose grip or whatnot.
I guess in the end it will potentially make the course faster and whatnot. There may be a few additional small changes too...but any of that would just be hearsay.

[Kalaby]

I contacted the VCP parks department and they said that their grass seeding didn't take and that the south side of the parade grounds would still be fenced off through next spring. That would lead one to conclude that FLNE will be back at SM this year...I have a call in to Phil Zodda to see if he can confirm. Also means that Manhattan will probably be conducted on a modified course again this year.

[Kalaby]

I contacted the VCP parks department and they said that their grass seeding didn't take and that the south side of the parade grounds would still be fenced off through next spring. That would lead one to conclude that FLNE will be back at SM this year...I have a call in to Phil Zodda to see if he can confirm. Also means that Manhattan will probably be conducted on a modified course again this year.

I actually heard back from the Parks Dept in early June and now they say that the VCP course will be good to go for the 2011 XC season. I haven't been by VCP in some time, so I can't verify for myself. Does anybody have any info???

[king99]

Mike, it;s a shame kind of, but with the split post seaosn meets now and VCP being changed and now this?

I honestly have a little less inetrest in follwoing the whole fall thing

It has almost become too commercialized for me.

Guys like you with your passion help keep a perspective, but there is almost no more point to the endless deabtes of all timers to today, courses are too different today.

the one thing about Holmdel, I can kind of figure out what happened, the course rruns better in bad weather, but once Forys broke the long time record, even marginally, guys no longer thought it invincible. Then Rosa crushed it, now guys figure they can run 15:30's every year

[Eva N]

Guys like you with your passion help keep a perspective, but there is almost no more point to the endless debates of all timers to today, courses are too different today.

the one thing about Holmdel, I can kind of figure out what happened, the course runs better in bad weather, but once Forys broke the long time record, even marginally, guys no longer thought it invincible. Then Rosa crushed it, now guys figure they can run 15:30's every year

I've never seen the Holmdel course... but the SM course probably runs better in bad weather as well, or at least after a couple of wet days to pack all the sand on the hills down.

[meanmrmustard]

Ran there today. If it weren't for the railroad ties, the erosion on snake and cardiac would be worse than it already is. There was some gravel/stone/pavement? put down at the entrance of cardiac. Otherwise, everything else is the same, goosesh*t included.

[Kalaby]

Mike, it;s a shame kind of, but with the split post seaosn meets now and VCP being changed and now this?

I honestly have a little less inetrest in follwoing the whole fall thing

It has almost become too commercialized for me.

Guys like you with your passion help keep a perspective, but there is almost no more point to the endless deabtes of all timers to today, courses are too different today.

the one thing about Holmdel, I can kind of figure out what happened, the course rruns better in bad weather, but once Forys broke the long time record, even marginally, guys no longer thought it invincible. Then Rosa crushed it, now guys figure they can run 15:30's every year

Doug,

Well, it looks like we have a shot at getting the traditional VCP back for at least Manhattan/Easterns, and possibly for FLNE, not a bad thing.

The split between FL and Nike stinks, no two ways about it...but that's the lay of the land, at least for the near term future.

As far as XC courses are concerned, they're always changing over time...some experience major overhauls, whereas others experience more minor changes...it's the nature of the beast with XC.

Agree on Holmdel...the mental barriers have been breached and the kids now have the confidence to attack the course at the right places. In general, the kids are getting faster and faster (see my Running Renaissance thread about track performances over time). I think it's only a matter of time before some stud breaks 12:00 on the traditional VCP course...sub 15:00 for the 5k is also within range if you get a Northeast phenom looking to go to FL Nationals.

[JackDaniels(TheBeverage)]

I actually heard back from the Parks Dept in early June and now they say that the VCP course will be good to go for the 2011 XC season. I haven't been by VCP in some time, so I can't verify for myself. Does anybody have any info???

I drove by VCP today and from what I could see, through the rain and mist and such, there weren't any fences up on either end of the parade grounds. But that was just a quick glance.

[Kalaby]

I drove by VCP today and from what I could see, through the rain and mist and such, there weren't any fences up on either end of the parade grounds. But that was just a quick glance.

Good info - thanks. Looks like XC could be back to "normal" this year at VCP.

[DanD]

I have been told by people connected with the meet that the NYC Parks
commission have told them that they must use the same course as last
year.

[Kalaby]

I have been told by people connected with the meet that the NYC Parks
commission have told them that they must use the same course as last
year.

Just heard from Mike Botti - looks like they'll (i.e. Manhattan/Easterns folks) be using the same course that they used in 2009 (start near the tennis courts). Maybe next year we'll finally get back to using the "traditional" VCP courses.