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  #641  
Old 07-15-2014, 11:06 PM
Davy Jones Davy Jones is offline
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Originally Posted by DiscoGary View Post
Our country was founded on the ideology of a limited Federal Government
You mean the Articles of Confederation, which failed?




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Originally Posted by DiscoGary View Post
and that concept was put into law in the form of the Constitution. Any attempt to expand the Feds' powers beyond those granted to it by the Constitution is a violation of the law, and by extension a violation of the social contract that we all made with each other when we agreed to live under the rules of the Constitution.

I stand for the rule of law as defined in the Constitution. Give me that, and I can get along with anyone.
The Constitution is a living document. It's meaning changes each day.

If you disagree, then give up all your guns other than muskets.
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I'm done with the gay stuff for now.
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  #642  
Old 07-15-2014, 11:09 PM
Davy Jones Davy Jones is offline
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Originally Posted by DiscoGary View Post
To say the civil war was purely economic is revisionist history. To say that you have to say that there was no principled opposition to slavery, that no effort was made to stop the spread of slavery, that no pressure was put on the South to free their slaves, that slavery caused no political friction between the North and South, and that everyone in the country would have been perfectly happy with the continuation of slavery as long as they got their cut. None of that is true. Slavery was a cancer on the political system in the US from the very beginning, and was never likely to end well. Economic concerns were definitely involved because slaves were considered to be legal property and any attempt to end slavery would result in a huge disruption of the South's economic system.

Drop the Howard Zinn and try to get some perspective.
Comparing opposition to slavery and efforts to stop the spread is like comparing opposition to Communism and effort to stop the spread of Communism. It's not the same thing. One is a principled belief, and the other is kicking the can down the road.

Slavery was as much a determining factor in the Civil War as Archduke Franz Ferdinand was to WWI. Was it a factor? Sure. But not a very big one.
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I'm done with the gay stuff for now.
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  #643  
Old 07-16-2014, 11:20 AM
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DiscoGary DiscoGary is offline
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I am well aware that the Constitution has been nullified by those who use the "living document" argument to justify violating every limitation it places on government.

The Constitution used to be the social contract that bound us together under a set of rules that treated us all equally and helped us defend our individual rights. It was those guarantees of individual rights and limitations on government that made the US fairer, more prosperous, and stronger than other countries. We have lost that.

We are no longer a Constitutional Republic. We are simply a Republic, where the 51% is unrestrained and can pass any law it wishes. Democracy is the best form of government, but without rules and boundaries it degenerates very quickly into something else. The Constitution used to be the boundary that kept Federal Government power in check, but that boundary is gone.

I need to remind you that the most effective killing machine ever devised by man is an all-powerful un-restricted government. Governments kill more of their own people than are killed in international wars.

Government is your worst enemy, should NEVER be trusted, and should always be watched with suspicion. That is the principle this country was founded on... and we have thrown it away because we want to use the power of government to take money from someone else and give it to us. We all think there's someone else that has more than we do and we'd like to get a cut of what they have. It never occurs to us that for every person making more than us there are ten people making less who will have their hands in our wallets trying to get a cut of what we have.

This is a poor way to run a country.
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  #644  
Old 07-16-2014, 02:21 PM
TNG TNG is offline
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Originally Posted by DiscoGary View Post
I am well aware that the Constitution has been nullified by those who use the "living document" argument to justify violating every limitation it places on government.

The Constitution used to be the social contract that bound us together under a set of rules that treated us all equally and helped us defend our individual rights. It was those guarantees of individual rights and limitations on government that made the US fairer, more prosperous, and stronger than other countries. We have lost that.

We are no longer a Constitutional Republic. We are simply a Republic, where the 51% is unrestrained and can pass any law it wishes. Democracy is the best form of government, but without rules and boundaries it degenerates very quickly into something else. The Constitution used to be the boundary that kept Federal Government power in check, but that boundary is gone.

I need to remind you that the most effective killing machine ever devised by man is an all-powerful un-restricted government. Governments kill more of their own people than are killed in international wars.

Government is your worst enemy, should NEVER be trusted, and should always be watched with suspicion. That is the principle this country was founded on... and we have thrown it away because we want to use the power of government to take money from someone else and give it to us. We all think there's someone else that has more than we do and we'd like to get a cut of what they have. It never occurs to us that for every person making more than us there are ten people making less who will have their hands in our wallets trying to get a cut of what we have.

This is a poor way to run a country.
Spark Notes - Sux to be you, so wise and insightful, being held up by Government so others can live their dream.
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  #645  
Old 07-16-2014, 11:12 PM
Davy Jones Davy Jones is offline
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Originally Posted by DiscoGary View Post
I am well aware that the Constitution has been nullified by those who use the "living document" argument to justify violating every limitation it places on government.

The Constitution used to be the social contract that bound us together under a set of rules that treated us all equally and helped us defend our individual rights. It was those guarantees of individual rights and limitations on government that made the US fairer, more prosperous, and stronger than other countries. We have lost that.

We are no longer a Constitutional Republic. We are simply a Republic, where the 51% is unrestrained and can pass any law it wishes. Democracy is the best form of government, but without rules and boundaries it degenerates very quickly into something else. The Constitution used to be the boundary that kept Federal Government power in check, but that boundary is gone.

I need to remind you that the most effective killing machine ever devised by man is an all-powerful un-restricted government. Governments kill more of their own people than are killed in international wars.

Government is your worst enemy, should NEVER be trusted, and should always be watched with suspicion. That is the principle this country was founded on... and we have thrown it away because we want to use the power of government to take money from someone else and give it to us. We all think there's someone else that has more than we do and we'd like to get a cut of what they have. It never occurs to us that for every person making more than us there are ten people making less who will have their hands in our wallets trying to get a cut of what we have.

This is a poor way to run a country.
So if the Constitution is not a living document, then you agree that the 2nd Amendment gives the right to muskets, and nothing more, correct?
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I'm done with the gay stuff for now.
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  #646  
Old 07-17-2014, 10:20 AM
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DiscoGary DiscoGary is offline
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Originally Posted by TNG View Post
Spark Notes - Sux to be you, so wise and insightful, being held up by Government so others can live their dream.
You are lost in cloud of ignorance, misinformation, and hate. You are doomed to live a life forever confused by the world around you, wondering why the ideals you hold sacred never deliver on their promises.

Your only recourse is to blame the failure of your ideas on those who disagree with you.

It is a very small life you lead.
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  #647  
Old 07-17-2014, 10:52 AM
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DiscoGary DiscoGary is offline
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Let's get back to where this thread should be. We shouldn't be in a pissing match about the rule of law, we should be discussing why those of you who disagreed with my assessment were wrong. HappyJack is the only one here who started that process, so I'm going to engage him in what I hope will be a serious discussion. Here's his first post after July 1st:

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I'll be the first one to admit that this experiment failed big-time. Being an open mined moderate and an independent voter I thought having an African-American President might be a good thing for our nation. Although I still believe an African-American could be a good leader for our country, I don't have any faith left in our currant one. It doesn't seem to me that he wants to lead from the front, but rather lead from public opinion. The major trouble with this type of leadership is you are always months behind in the decision making process. They way he has been governing makes me wonder why he wanted the job in the first place. Did he think it was going to be easy? Or was he thinking about the honorarium he'd receive once he was retired from public service?
Why would an African-American leader be a good thing for the country? Were you hoping that this would heal racial divides and prove that we had become a truly color blind society? A lot of people were hoping for that.
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  #648  
Old 07-17-2014, 08:54 PM
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HappyJack HappyJack is offline
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Originally Posted by DiscoGary View Post
Let's get back to where this thread should be. We shouldn't be in a pissing match about the rule of law, we should be discussing why those of you who disagreed with my assessment were wrong. HappyJack is the only one here who started that process, so I'm going to engage him in what I hope will be a serious discussion. Here's his first post after July 1st:



Why would an African-American leader be a good thing for the country?
Were you hoping that this would heal racial divides and prove that we had become a truly color blind society? A lot of people were hoping for that.
Before I respond perhaps you could clarify the sentence I bolded. I could mistakenly misinterpret it to mean that you don't think an African-American could be a good leader for this country. It's obvious that you and I both think Obama has failed. But I believe an American from any race, gender or religion could, with the right upbringing, education, training, and previous experience in government be a good/great Chief Executive. Do you disagree? If you do, could you explain why?

P.S. I would have replied sooner, but it's been a very busy news day.
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  #649  
Old 07-17-2014, 09:46 PM
TNG TNG is offline
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Originally Posted by DiscoGary View Post
You are lost in cloud of ignorance, misinformation, and hate. You are doomed to live a life forever confused by the world around you, wondering why the ideals you hold sacred never deliver on their promises.

Your only recourse is to blame the failure of your ideas on those who disagree with you.

It is a very small life you lead.
Yo pot, kettle here. You know very little about me, beyond that I believe you are a collossal nozzle, and I disagree with a majority of the crap you spew. I doubt you have a clue to what issues I hold dear let alone my position..
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