Mstca / Miaa News

[Warrior]

Have meant to post for some time on news from these orgainizations. Have put some information in other threads but thought I should try to get more out. MIAA XC / T&F Committee met last Friday and MSTCA Eboard met last night for last meetings of the school year.

A few updates right now: Last nights MSTCA Eboard held the first contested vote for officers in my memory for president in which I was soundly defeated 16-6 with President Hoar retaining the presidency. Hard to fight incumbants in any election.

Another note from that meeting;
Change in next year's Indoor schedule with Relay meets moving to first 2 weekends of January and Frosh/ Soph movcing back to 3rd week.

MIAA will hold a summer meeting on July 17th in which many ideas outside the box can be brought up. People are encouraged to get ideas to Committee members to be discussed including MSTCA Reps President Jim Hoar and ED Frank Mooney. One idea floated at MSTCA meeting and I think mentioned on the latest Milesplit Exchange Zone was relays counting double points in MIAA meets for team scoring. Another was the idea of multi events being part of MIAA championships.

There's more but that's it for now.

[Zitans]

Originally Posted by Warrior

Have meant to post for some time on news from these orgainizations. Have put some information in other threads but thought I should try to get more out. MIAA XC / T&F Committee met last Friday and MSTCA Eboard met last night for last meetings of the school year.

A few updates right now: Last nights MSTCA Eboard held the first contested vote for officers in my memory for president in which I was soundly defeated 16-6 with President Hoar retaining the presidency. Hard to fight incumbants in any election.

Another note from that meeting;
Change in next year's Indoor schedule with Relay meets moving to first 2 weekends of January and Frosh/ Soph movcing back to 3rd week.

MIAA will hold a summer meeting on July 17th in which many ideas outside the box can be brought up. People are encouraged to get ideas to Committee members to be discussed including MSTCA Reps President Jim Hoar and ED Frank Mooney. One idea floated at MSTCA meeting and I think mentioned on the latest Milesplit Exchange Zone was relays counting double points in MIAA meets for team scoring. Another was the idea of multi events being part of MIAA championships.

There's more but that's it for now.

terrible...looks like some teams don't get to go to Dartmouth....hope it's not D3's the kids really love getting to travel to one meet. love that the Exchange Zone is getting some voices out there...only hope the papers follow suit...

[mcrun33]

Originally Posted by Warrior

Another note from that meeting;
Change in next year's Indoor schedule with Relay meets moving to first 2 weekends of January and Frosh/ Soph moving back to 3rd week.

In addition to Dartmouth being a problem, how about just the idea that the relay meets, considered by some a championship worthy of preparing for, will be EVEN earlier than they already are. I think relays should be later if anything.

Just curious, what was the rationale behind this? Am I the only only who thinks the relays should be given an opportunity to shine as a big time meet, given the weight it holds as a team title? For some, this will be just a few days after XMas vacation, putting kids in a position to be a little dull after the layoff. This is unfortunate to me.

One good thing might be that many of us don't compete over break, giving us the chance to rest up for relays, but at that early point, the BSC has usually has one dual meet only. Good luck setting your lineup!

[Nightranger]

Originally Posted by mcrun33

how about just the idea that the relay meets, considered by some a championship worthy of preparing for, will be EVEN earlier than they already are. I think relays should be later if anything.

QFE.

Yikes...this sucks. I, too, would love to know the rationale. Relays are arguably my favorite meet of the year, the true test of depth, and this will marginalize them for the sake of the frosh/soph meet? This seems like a change just to make a change.

[trackmanpete]

Well, I had hoped to stop posting with my last comments on the New England Meet and I promise this is the end of the season posting....

1. If you want to count multi event, fine, just don't put it on at the same time as the rest of the meet. The day before would work just fine.

2. Relay meets are fun meets that help gear up the season and get lots of athletes involved in a meet. Therefore, I think early is good. Perhaps we have an advantage as we do run meets during Christmas break (time slots available at Reggie and BU). Being old school I like progressions that go from low key meets (duals and relays in my opinion) to championship meets, which means that we still need some shots at getting qualifying times later in the season as we position athletes for events. Getting the frosh-soph meet a bit later also helps in finding someone who is still learning the ropes and has some opportunities early to run duals and then gets on a fast track later to try and qualify for conference and or states.

3. With the anticipated increase in indoor state divisions (five in Eastern MA), I am hoping we get enough time and dates for all divisions to get use of Reggie, so it is important, I think, that teams that don't normally run at Reggie get a chance later in the season to get some qualification marks.

4. I would still like to see more discussion on entry limits and meet schedules, as I think that business is still not complete. As can be seen by the state and all state meet results, the sprinter/jumper combination still gains the upper hand for the most part (yes we did benefit with the 800/mile, but that will not be the norm except for a very few talented). Three event, no restriction, and adjusting the schedule to allow for natural doubles would be my suggestion to the group in Franklin.

That is it for me. I have stirred up enough dust for a while and my tomatoes are ripe and ready for picking (along with broccoli, peas, lettuce, strawberries and cucumbers). It's a good day in the neighborhood....

[Warrior]

Originally Posted by trackmanpete

Well, I had hoped to stop posting with my last comments on the New England Meet and I promise this is the end of the season posting....

1. If you want to count multi event, fine, just don't put it on at the same time as the rest of the meet. The day before would work just fine.

2. Relay meets are fun meets that help gear up the season and get lots of athletes involved in a meet. Therefore, I think early is good. Perhaps we have an advantage as we do run meets during Christmas break (time slots available at Reggie and BU). Being old school I like progressions that go from low key meets (duals and relays in my opinion) to championship meets, which means that we still need some shots at getting qualifying times later in the season as we position athletes for events. Getting the frosh-soph meet a bit later also helps in finding someone who is still learning the ropes and has some opportunities early to run duals and then gets on a fast track later to try and qualify for conference and or states.

3. With the anticipated increase in indoor state divisions (five in Eastern MA), I am hoping we get enough time and dates for all divisions to get use of Reggie, so it is important, I think, that teams that don't normally run at Reggie get a chance later in the season to get some qualification marks.

4. I would still like to see more discussion on entry limits and meet schedules, as I think that business is still not complete. As can be seen by the state and all state meet results, the sprinter/jumper combination still gains the upper hand for the most part (yes we did benefit with the 800/mile, but that will not be the norm except for a very few talented). Three event, no restriction, and adjusting the schedule to allow for natural doubles would be my suggestion to the group in Franklin.

That is it for me. I have stirred up enough dust for a while and my tomatoes are ripe and ready for picking (along with broccoli, peas, lettuce, strawberries and cucumbers). It's a good day in the neighborhood....

When is the Farmer's Market in Mansfield? Save me some tomoatoes.

Pete's analysis as to the Indoor change is the other side of the argument that won the day - just as it is early to set relay lineups - it was early to figure out who were the athletes that should be given opportunities in the Frosh / Soph. I can see both sides but voted to keep it the same. Would like issues like this to get vetted more on TT to get more widespread opinions before brought to Eboard. I'll try to do that as we go on.

Does anyone reach out to their league reps on the eboard to voice opinions or give suggestions? If you do do reach out is iot alweays to the ED Mr. Mooney? Definitely want to see more people feel like they can be involved.

[trackmanpete]

Originally Posted by Warrior

When is the Farmer's Market in Mansfield? Save me some tomoatoes.

Pete's analysis as to the Indoor change is the other side of the argument that won the day - just as it is early to set relay lineups - it was early to figure out who were the athletes that should be given opportunities in the Frosh / Soph. I can see both sides but voted to keep it the same. Would like issues like this to get vetted more on TT to get more widespread opinions before brought to Eboard. I'll try to do that as we go on.

Does anyone reach out to their league reps on the eboard to voice opinions or give suggestions? If you do do reach out is iot alweays to the ED Mr. Mooney? Definitely want to see more people feel like they can be involved.

Main crop of tomatoes come end of July. Will keep you posted. I do make one to two trips to deliver tomatoes to parking attendant at BU and to my favorite secretary at BU, so maybe I can make a detour your way, otherwise it's 30 minutes to Mansfield and Organic Tomatoes at it's best.

Frank Mooney is a great source for listening and communicating. He sent out another email today detailing meeting info, clinics, etc. He does a great job. I was told the new division is a year away.

[The_Conductor]

I'd like to float an idea of changing the way an athlete qualifies for All-States. Specific to outdoors, I would like to see the number of automatic qualifiers from each division dropped to three and then have six at-large qualifiers (18 autos + 6 at-large = 24 athletes), kind of like how it's currently done for indoors. You can only be an at-large bid if you place 8th or better to deal with the issue of laned finals.

Now, for both indoors and outdoors, I would like to see a declaration process similar to what is done for New Englands. Coaches/athletes have until they leave the track on the day of their divisional meet to declare for the AS meet. If an athlete does not declare, 4th place gets their automatic qualifying spot (if 4th doesn't want it, 5th gets it, etc.). I will get to why I am suggesting this in a minute.

A suggestion I have regarding both the divisional meets and the All-State meet is that of scratches. I am a huge fan of how the event entries have been opened up and how athletes can double individual events. I am distinctly not a fan of how this has been abused by coaches insofar as they enter all of their athletes in multiple individual events, see where the other entries are, and scratch 15 minutes before the event starts (this is not a criticism of the coaches as I would do the same thing, rather, it is a criticism of the rule). I would like to see that once an athlete scratches from one event, they are scratched from all future events in the day, relays included. This rule is enforced from the moment entries are closed. If you want your star to double the mile and 2 mile, great, but you can no longer enter them in both, scratch from one, and have them run the 4x8. That is not to say that you can't change what you do between the divisional meet and AS: an athlete could double the mile and 2 mile, only declare one, and then run that plus the 4x8 at AS.

My motivations for these suggestions:
-A declaration process means athletes don't get screwed by athletes ahead of them scratching for a relay at AS. This year, the girls 400, 800, and mile had 16, 16, and 17 competitors respectively. I recognize that some of these scratches have to do with the meet getting moved, but I know several of these girls scratched to run relays. Divisional races can be very close, and given that I have also suggested that autos get reduced from 4 to 3, I don't think competition will get watered down at all by this.
-Speaking to the issue of small fields, a declaration process ensures that all fields are 24 or damn close to it. With the knowledge that there will be very few, if any, day-of scratches, the meet director can put together heats prior to meet (and release if they feel so inclined) and keep the heats as constructed, regardless of scratches. This means that an accurate time schedule can be put together, given to athletes and coaches, and be stuck to rather than magically going ahead by half an hour after one event, as was the case at AS this year. If they want, the meet director can say that they will go ahead of schedule by 15 minutes but no more. This is the way that just about every college meet is run and it works great.
-The scratching rule and the declaration process together means that athletes and coaches know what to expect in terms of competition at the division meet and the AS meet. Right now, it's the coaches playing games with each other while the athletes suffer. In my mind, that's not right nor is it the point of these competitions.
-I probably had some other motivations that I've forgotten.

Thoughts, questions, ideas, telling me I'm an idiot, etc. are all welcome.

-------------------

Regarding the relay meet, I like how it's moved earlier indoors. If it's later, there will be some kids going hard at the relay meet, league meet, conference meet, division meet, state meet, NE meet, and nationals in consecutive weekends. A break for them would be nice.

[mcrun33]

The last argument on relays is a good one, many tough races in a row. However, any coach who focuses on the F-S meet MORE than relays, well, doesn't have it right. Who cares if you miss a good new frosh and she doesn't get to run 45.5 in the 300? The state relay meet is a state level championship meet and should not be on January 5th, as it will be this winter.

[dhysz16]

Originally Posted by The_Conductor

I'd like to float an idea of changing the way an athlete qualifies for All-States. Specific to outdoors, I would like to see the number of automatic qualifiers from each division dropped to three and then have six at-large qualifiers (18 autos + 6 at-large = 24 athletes), kind of like how it's currently done for indoors. You can only be an at-large bid if you place 8th or better to deal with the issue of laned finals.

Now, for both indoors and outdoors, I would like to see a declaration process similar to what is done for New Englands. Coaches/athletes have until they leave the track on the day of their divisional meet to declare for the AS meet. If an athlete does not declare, 4th place gets their automatic qualifying spot (if 4th doesn't want it, 5th gets it, etc.). I will get to why I am suggesting this in a minute.

A suggestion I have regarding both the divisional meets and the All-State meet is that of scratches. I am a huge fan of how the event entries have been opened up and how athletes can double individual events. I am distinctly not a fan of how this has been abused by coaches insofar as they enter all of their athletes in multiple individual events, see where the other entries are, and scratch 15 minutes before the event starts (this is not a criticism of the coaches as I would do the same thing, rather, it is a criticism of the rule). I would like to see that once an athlete scratches from one event, they are scratched from all future events in the day, relays included. This rule is enforced from the moment entries are closed. If you want your star to double the mile and 2 mile, great, but you can no longer enter them in both, scratch from one, and have them run the 4x8. That is not to say that you can't change what you do between the divisional meet and AS: an athlete could double the mile and 2 mile, only declare one, and then run that plus the 4x8 at AS.

My motivations for these suggestions:
-A declaration process means athletes don't get screwed by athletes ahead of them scratching for a relay at AS. This year, the girls 400, 800, and mile had 16, 16, and 17 competitors respectively. I recognize that some of these scratches have to do with the meet getting moved, but I know several of these girls scratched to run relays. Divisional races can be very close, and given that I have also suggested that autos get reduced from 4 to 3, I don't think competition will get watered down at all by this.
-Speaking to the issue of small fields, a declaration process ensures that all fields are 24 or damn close to it. With the knowledge that there will be very few, if any, day-of scratches, the meet director can put together heats prior to meet (and release if they feel so inclined) and keep the heats as constructed, regardless of scratches. This means that an accurate time schedule can be put together, given to athletes and coaches, and be stuck to rather than magically going ahead by half an hour after one event, as was the case at AS this year. If they want, the meet director can say that they will go ahead of schedule by 15 minutes but no more. This is the way that just about every college meet is run and it works great.
-The scratching rule and the declaration process together means that athletes and coaches know what to expect in terms of competition at the division meet and the AS meet. Right now, it's the coaches playing games with each other while the athletes suffer. In my mind, that's not right nor is it the point of these competitions.
-I probably had some other motivations that I've forgotten.

Thoughts, questions, ideas, telling me I'm an idiot, etc. are all welcome.

-------------------

Regarding the relay meet, I like how it's moved earlier indoors. If it's later, there will be some kids going hard at the relay meet, league meet, conference meet, division meet, state meet, NE meet, and nationals in consecutive weekends. A break for them would be nice.

I agree with everything in this post.