The Arizona Shooting

[MoMoNoMo]

He supposedly stopped his druggy ways, cold turkey, sometime in 2008, and turned toward weight-lifting and physical fitness.

The difference in the photos of him from a few years ago, and now, are striking -- he's substantially heavier and more muscular.

My own theory is that he was taking heavy doses of steroids -- which would explain his moon-faced look in the prison photo, and possibly also why he doesn't seem to have eyebrows. Hair loss can be accelerated (in men) by steroid use, which can also, of course, create feelings of rage -- and delusions. Just a theory...

[MoMoNoMo]

from newsweek.com:

Arizona shooter Jared Loughner used Salvia, the hallucinogenic drug, according to a high school friend of his. Obviously, Loughner was troubled. But did Salvia have anything to do with it? Currently, there’s very little scientific information about the drug’s effects—thanks, in part, to Salvia’s relative safety. “So far the federal government has not funded any studies, because it’s not seen as relevant until someone dies of an overdose,” says John Mendelson, MD, a pharmacologist at California Pacific Medical Center Research Institute. ...

... What little research that has been done shows that all strains of Salvia divinorum, a plant grown for centuries in Mexico, produces a chemical called Salvionon A. This chemical affects the kappa opioid receptor, a part of the brain that’s in large part responsible for our perceptions of reality.

In an unmodified state, Salvia—whether it’s smoked, chewed, or swallowed in extract form—produces an intense high, lasting less than half an hour. “It’s one of the most behaviorally impairing drugs that we’ve come across,” says Matthew Johnson, MD, assistant professor of psychology at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine. “At the higher doses, people are completely dissociated from this reality . . . They describe being completely transported to another dimension.”

[wineturtle]

Originally Posted by wayne b

I've found this discussion to be quite interesting and informative. Thanks to all of you, and especially Zat for some very insightful commentary. I had fairly quickly come to the conclusion that Loughner was, in lay parlace, crazy, and though some things like the crosshairs targeting may have been contributory, they weren't the primary cause. Further examination of the situation has taken away the foundation for even that. I am convinced that his actions against Giffords were simply a matter of geography - she was his congresswoman and made herself accessible to constituents.

I understand there is now a run going on on high capacity ammo magazines because many feel that is what is at risk right now in the shooting world. I'm pretty sure that restricting them is a case of closing the barn door after the horse has run off. I am an advocate of strong gun laws, including registration and a database (and this has long been a sore point with the NRA, and, in my opinion, not entirely without cause). I remember 17? years ago when the LIRR shootings took place, I said that an armed citizenry was the best defense against that kind of thing. I'm less sure it would have had as much value here, as the shooting was apparently less deliberate, giving less opportunity for armed civilians to act.

larger capacity magazines are currently banned...but dealers are allowed to sell out their existing stocks, this I know as fact. I do not know if that provision of the hicapmag ban extended to the wholesalers also.
Back in the 1970 a friend had a uncle who bought a gun in the AM and killed himself with it in the PM. The fact that Howards 100% BLIND uncle could walk into a gunshop and buy a handgun never sat well with me.
I share Zats views on firearms ownership pretty much 100% The keeping weapons out of the hands of mentally ill people does put us on a slippery slope about the point of purchase control-what can be expected of a clerk and what is required of him by law- but everytime I hear of senseless violence like this the first thing that pops into my head is the image of a blindman walking into a gunshop and exiting 20 minutes later with ammo and a legal handgun.
We can not legislate that everyone use common sense.... but that does not mean we should frown upon its use. I'm sick and tired of being reminded that the human species seems to have hate as the default setting when it comes to interaction with its own kind.

[Kalaby]

Originally Posted by MoMoNoMo

from newsweek.com:

Arizona shooter Jared Loughner used Salvia, the hallucinogenic drug, according to a high school friend of his. Obviously, Loughner was troubled. But did Salvia have anything to do with it? Currently, there’s very little scientific information about the drug’s effects—thanks, in part, to Salvia’s relative safety. “So far the federal government has not funded any studies, because it’s not seen as relevant until someone dies of an overdose,” says John Mendelson, MD, a pharmacologist at California Pacific Medical Center Research Institute. ...

... What little research that has been done shows that all strains of Salvia divinorum, a plant grown for centuries in Mexico, produces a chemical called Salvionon A. This chemical affects the kappa opioid receptor, a part of the brain that’s in large part responsible for our perceptions of reality.

In an unmodified state, Salvia—whether it’s smoked, chewed, or swallowed in extract form—produces an intense high, lasting less than half an hour. “It’s one of the most behaviorally impairing drugs that we’ve come across,” says Matthew Johnson, MD, assistant professor of psychology at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine. “At the higher doses, people are completely dissociated from this reality . . . They describe being completely transported to another dimension.”

Thanks for the info - but if I understand your earlier post, he probably hasn't done this since around 2008 (when he reportedly quit all drugs)?

Stating the obvious here, but:

Mental illness + lots of drugs over many years = recipe for disaster (as we've unfortunately seen with this guy)

*I'm assuming that the mental illness was there first and that he didn't drug his way into psychosis, etc. (though I suppose that's a possibility).

[MoMoNoMo]

Yeah, the thing about Salvia doesn't make clear when he started it, or when he stopped.

Meantime, here's another very interesting piece on dealing with paranoid patients, written by a clinical psychiatrist who has decades of experience working with people like Loughner and who teaches at Brown: http://www.salon.com/news/jared_loug...with_paranoids

[wayne b]

I thought this commentary might be of interest:
http://www.boingboing.net/2011/01/13...tudy-says.html

[wayne b]

Originally Posted by wineturtle

larger capacity magazines are currently banned...but dealers are allowed to sell out their existing stocks, this I know as fact. I do not know if that provision of the hicapmag ban extended to the wholesalers also.

WiT, my understanding was that the hi-cap mags were banned until perhaps a decade ago, then were permitted as a law sunsetted. I don't think they're illegal to import or sell right now.

[MoMoNoMo]

that's a state-by-state thing, i believe, wayne.

[wineturtle]

Shows you how often I go to the store to load up on ammo and stuff.

[wayne b]

MoMo,
I believe the law I was talking about was a federal law making import and sale of hi-cap mags illegal. There are state laws, which are often stricter than federal, which do impact this, but because crossing state lines is so easy, they are often ineffective.
Wayne